Seiko Kinetic capacitor problem?

[unknown]

I've had a Seiko Kinetic with the 5M42 mechanism in for a few years (I'd say
at least 3 or 4). I've read about the problems that can occur with the
capacitor, but this one has always seemed fine - I wear it fairly
frequently, and it's relatively easy to keep the charge up to the top that
it will display (30 seconds sweep, but apparently can hold greater charge
that the mechanism can't display). So far it hasn't seemed to degenerate at
all, in terms of the duration that it holds charge for.

A month or two back I bought an almost identical, brand-new Kinetic (very
similar case number) just subtly different on the face. I bought it from an
overseas vendor, and it came with all the appropriate packaging,
instructions, and warranty card (apparently it has an international
guarantee?).

Although it is definitely a brand new watch, presumably with the model of
watch being perhaps a couple of years old, now, perhaps it has been produced
then stored for some time.

When I received it, pressing the charge display button showed 20 seconds of
sweep - presumably around 2/3 of maximum displayable charge. Despite not
wearing it for some days / weeks, this seemed to remain unchanged for a
while - perhaps longer than I'd expect given how my other Kinetic seems to
respond to inactivity.

After a little bit, the charge display dropped to around 10 seconds of
sweep. So I started wearing the watch more, and swinging it manually to see
if I could up the charge displayed - on my other Kinetic, it doesn't take
that much activity to alter the displayable charge. It didn't appear to make
any difference - but after wearing it for a day or two, and spending a bit
of time swinging it, the charge display eventually went back up to 20
seconds sweep. However, I can't seem to make it show anything more than
this - which is quite a bit different to how my other (virtually identical)
Kinetic behaves.

Having said that, it doesn't seem to be discharge particularly quickly at
all - just seems to be quite reluctant to show more charge. Given this, and
that I can't seem to stimulate full displayable charge, is this suggestive
of there being a capacitor problem with it?

I did wonder, not long after I got it, whether it had some updated capacitor
or cell in it - because it seemed to take a lot longer than my other
Kinetic, to show any drop in charge. But as I said, it seems to take much
more activity to show any increase in charge, and won't seemingly display
the maximum (displayable) charge of 30 seconds sweep.

Many thanks in advance for any help or advice.

[Revision]

"__ __"

Post by unknown
went back up to 20
seconds

My 5M42 is identical to your second one. It runs well and shows 20 sec
on the charge, then 10, then 20, etc etc. What sort of accuracy do you
get? This one is about a second a week.

Here is a charger.

http://www.ofrei.com/page867.html

[unknown]

Post by Revision
"__ __"

Post by unknown
went back up to 20
seconds

My 5M42 is identical to your second one. It runs well and shows 20 sec
on the charge, then 10, then 20, etc etc. What sort of accuracy do you
get? This one is about a second a week.

In terms of accuracy I haven't really checked - except to say that over the
space of a month or two, it's pretty spot on with my older 5M42.

The two Kinetics I have are virtually identical - same case, the newer one
has a slightly darker colour to the dial, and no numbers or divisions - just
the lumious dots. To look at the watches are virtually identical.. That's
why I was so puzzled as to this difference in behaviour with respect to
charging and displaying charge.

Post by Revision
Here is a charger.
http://www.ofrei.com/page867.html

I did wonder if it's been either charged up, or has an upgraded cell. Or the
other scenario I've considered - is that the capacitor is going bad. I
thought, though, that when this was the case, it wouldn't hold charge for
very long - the new watch doesn't seem to do this - it seems like my earlier
version in this regard - it's just the displaying of the charge it's got
that's quite different.

[Revision]

Post by unknown
it's just the displaying of the charge it's got
that's quite different.

Battery charge circuits are problematic. Cell phones have smart chargers
and so on and the performance is hit and miss.

In the case of integrated circuit charge indicators, the circuit in one
little corner of the chip is measuring current through a forward biased
diode, then going to an analog/digital convertor. The conductance of the
diode is going to vary between chips, it's not adjustable, and the watch
is mass produced. So the charge indicator has some variation from watch
to watch.

[Revision]

A failure mode described in a post is when the watch will charge up to
ten and then run for 2 hours.

I sorta suspect that some of the caps that are getting replaced may need
to be zapped by the charger. I doubt that when the charge indicator
stops at 20 instead of 30 that it is an indication of a bad
capacitor...electronic circuits tend to have some variation between
circuit boards.

It would be good if Seiko provided some posts to connect the charger to
in order to avoid mucking around inside...I don't think the movement has
any charger contacts....well the charger probably has instructions.

[Buck]

Post by unknown
I've had a Seiko Kinetic with the 5M42 mechanism in for a few years (I'd say
at least 3 or 4). I've read about the problems that can occur with the
capacitor, but this one has always seemed fine - I wear it fairly
frequently, and it's relatively easy to keep the charge up to the top that
it will display (30 seconds sweep, but apparently can hold greater charge
that the mechanism can't display). So far it hasn't seemed to degenerate at
all, in terms of the duration that it holds charge for.
A month or two back I bought an almost identical, brand-new Kinetic (very
similar case number) just subtly different on the face. I bought it from an
overseas vendor, and it came with all the appropriate packaging,
instructions, and warranty card (apparently it has an international
guarantee?).
Although it is definitely a brand new watch, presumably with the model of
watch being perhaps a couple of years old, now, perhaps it has been produced
then stored for some time.
When I received it, pressing the charge display button showed 20 seconds of
sweep - presumably around 2/3 of maximum displayable charge. Despite not
wearing it for some days / weeks, this seemed to remain unchanged for a
while - perhaps longer than I'd expect given how my other Kinetic seems to
respond to inactivity.
After a little bit, the charge display dropped to around 10 seconds of
sweep. So I started wearing the watch more, and swinging it manually to see
if I could up the charge displayed - on my other Kinetic, it doesn't take
that much activity to alter the displayable charge. It didn't appear to make
any difference - but after wearing it for a day or two, and spending a bit
of time swinging it, the charge display eventually went back up to 20
seconds sweep. However, I can't seem to make it show anything more than
this - which is quite a bit different to how my other (virtually identical)
Kinetic behaves.
Having said that, it doesn't seem to be discharge particularly quickly at
all - just seems to be quite reluctant to show more charge. Given this, and
that I can't seem to stimulate full displayable charge, is this suggestive
of there being a capacitor problem with it?
I did wonder, not long after I got it, whether it had some updated capacitor
or cell in it - because it seemed to take a lot longer than my other
Kinetic, to show any drop in charge. But as I said, it seems to take much
more activity to show any increase in charge, and won't seemingly display
the maximum (displayable) charge of 30 seconds sweep.
Many thanks in advance for any help or advice.

I got my Seiko Kinetic very shortly after they were introduced, I want
to say about ten years ago. It has gotten (recently) to where it simply
would not accept or hold a full charge--which was new nine days of use,
maxed out at thirty seconds indicated on the dial, one hour of shaking
back and forth with seven inch arcs, about 1250 counted strokes. (God, I
love that watch. Toys for adult males. Is this Obsessive-Compulsive
Disorder or what?)

So I send it to Coserv on Lon Gisland. Seiko can do no wrong, know what
I mean? They quote me $80 to replace the capacitor. I send them $80.
They send me back the watch. It's buffed and beautiful, and there's a
form letter that says they have installed an updated capacitor with much
greater capacity than before,like the ones they are putting in the new
Kinetics. (Capacitor--capacity, get it?) The watch, the letter says,
will run for a full six months when the new capacitor is charged, as
compared to ten days when the old capacitor is fully charged. And I find
out that it takes a hell of a lot more shaking to get the watch up to
the twenty second mark on the dial, and DAYS of shaking to get it to the
thirty second mark. It bugs my wife. She thinks I'm crazy going around
shaking my watch, she says people will put me away or something.

Anyway, I put the watch on the top of the dresser to let it run down to
see how long that will take. I don't know if the watch was fully charged
when I put it on the dresser, but it's still going 29 days later, and
the indicator goes up to the ten second mark. Now my wife KNOWS I'm crazy.

Buck

[unknown]

Post by Buck
I got my Seiko Kinetic very shortly after they were introduced, I want
to say about ten years ago. It has gotten (recently) to where it simply
would not accept or hold a full charge--which was new nine days of use,
maxed out at thirty seconds indicated on the dial, one hour of shaking
back and forth with seven inch arcs, about 1250 counted strokes. (God, I
love that watch. Toys for adult males. Is this Obsessive-Compulsive
Disorder or what?)
So I send it to Coserv on Lon Gisland. Seiko can do no wrong, know what
I mean? They quote me $80 to replace the capacitor. I send them $80.
They send me back the watch. It's buffed and beautiful, and there's a
form letter that says they have installed an updated capacitor with much
greater capacity than before,like the ones they are putting in the new
Kinetics. (Capacitor--capacity, get it?) The watch, the letter says,
will run for a full six months when the new capacitor is charged, as
compared to ten days when the old capacitor is fully charged. And I find
out that it takes a hell of a lot more shaking to get the watch up to
the twenty second mark on the dial, and DAYS of shaking to get it to the
thirty second mark. It bugs my wife. She thinks I'm crazy going around
shaking my watch, she says people will put me away or something.
Anyway, I put the watch on the top of the dresser to let it run down to
see how long that will take. I don't know if the watch was fully charged
when I put it on the dresser, but it's still going 29 days later, and
the indicator goes up to the ten second mark. Now my wife KNOWS I'm crazy.

Many thanks for the feedback.

It's making me think that perhaps this has an upgraded capacitor in it,
then - because it does seem to behave like this.

It's not stopped all the time I've had it, and I've only worn it a couple of
times, it's never shown less than 10 seconds sweep, and it's been on 20 for
a while.