"Regulator" Wall Clock problem - hour hand "disengaged"

[t***@hotmail.com]

Hello everyone,

About 15 years ago, I bought a pendulum wall clock at an antique store
and it worked fine (it is the typical "schoolhouse clock" model in
medium wood case, octagonal trim around the face and a glass door at
the bottom behind which the pendulum swings (the word Regulator) is on
the glass.

Somehere in there, the clock "broke"; that is to say, the hour hand now
seems to have become "disengaged" somehow, such that it doesn't drive
anything and just falls limp to the 6 o'clock position. I took off the
hands and removed the face and see that there is a single "rod" (please
forgive my ignorance as to the proper terms) protruding from the
mechanics, onto which both hands are to be attached. This "rod" has an
inner and outer cylinder, with the outer one for the hour hand and the
inner one for the inner hand.

The hour hand fits on first, as it has notches which fit the outer
cylinder. The minute hand then goes on top of the hour hand, and it has
a rectangular-shaped center which fits over the inner cylinder, capped
off by a hexagonal-shaped screw that holds them into place.

Anyway, it's not worth taking this to get fixed, but I don't want to
pitch it or "give" it away, so I'm hoping someone can provide me some
insight as to what the problem may be.

Any experts out there have any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

-Tim

[The Baron]

Does the minute hand have a square hole in the metal hand , itself? Or is
there a brass ''collet'' with a square hole, that is friction fit to the
hand?
If you have collet type, then the collet may be loose on the hand.

What happens if you remove the minute hand, and with your fingers or pliers,
turn the minute hand shaft? Does it turn easily or flop here as well?

In other words is it the hand itself or the shaft itself?

If it is the steel hand shaft, then the problem might be between the plates,
or external to the plates, depending on the type of clock.

Is this an American clock or Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian etc. type of
clock? Can you see the movement? Can you take a photo?

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Hello everyone,
About 15 years ago, I bought a pendulum wall clock at an antique store
and it worked fine (it is the typical "schoolhouse clock" model in
medium wood case, octagonal trim around the face and a glass door at
the bottom behind which the pendulum swings (the word Regulator) is on
the glass.
Somehere in there, the clock "broke"; that is to say, the hour hand now
seems to have become "disengaged" somehow, such that it doesn't drive
anything and just falls limp to the 6 o'clock position. I took off the
hands and removed the face and see that there is a single "rod" (please
forgive my ignorance as to the proper terms) protruding from the
mechanics, onto which both hands are to be attached. This "rod" has an
inner and outer cylinder, with the outer one for the hour hand and the
inner one for the inner hand.
The hour hand fits on first, as it has notches which fit the outer
cylinder. The minute hand then goes on top of the hour hand, and it has
a rectangular-shaped center which fits over the inner cylinder, capped
off by a hexagonal-shaped screw that holds them into place.
Anyway, it's not worth taking this to get fixed, but I don't want to
pitch it or "give" it away, so I'm hoping someone can provide me some
insight as to what the problem may be.
Any experts out there have any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
-Tim

[t***@hotmail.com]

Hi, I tried to reply with a picture, but it seems to be taking forever
to post, so I posted it elsewhere and included a link.

Here are my answers:

1) The minute hand DOES have a square hole in the metal hand, so no
friction
problem.
2) Minute hand shaft has appropriate resistance and rings the chime if
positioned at 6 or 12.
3) The outer hour hand shaft has no resistance really and flops.
4) This is a Korean movement from a company called "Tae Yang".
5) I have a photo, here's a link:

Loading Image...

Thanks!!!

[The Baron]

Ok, thanks for the photo. If the hour hand is floppy on the brass hour
tube, then you should be able to close or pinch the hour hand collet, so
that it grips the brass tube tighter. Again, if the hour hand collet is
loose on the hand then it can be tightened to the hand.
If the brass tube is loose where it connects to the clock(in your case it
connects to a ''snail'') then the tube can tightened on the snail.

Where is it loose?

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Hi, I tried to reply with a picture, but it seems to be taking forever
to post, so I posted it elsewhere and included a link.
1) The minute hand DOES have a square hole in the metal hand, so no
friction
problem.
2) Minute hand shaft has appropriate resistance and rings the chime if
positioned at 6 or 12.
3) The outer hour hand shaft has no resistance really and flops.
4) This is a Korean movement from a company called "Tae Yang".
http://home.nc.rr.com/tdavis34/images/clock_movement.jpg
Thanks!!!

[t***@hotmail.com]

The hour hand is not loose on the tube - there are some notches on the
collet that fit in nicely and allow them to move together. It's just
that the tube itself moves too freely, with or without the hour hand,
so I'd say it's loose where it connects to the clock. How to tighten
the tube on the snail (if that's the answer)?

-Tim

[The Baron]

Well............, first determine what hour it is. Install both hands,
move the minute hand until the hour strikes, then orient the ''installed''
hour hand to the correct position. 3, 6, 9 and 12 are the most easy to do
with dial off.
As you may not be a Certified Master Clockmaker or FBHI, then apply a
liberal amount of super glue to the tube/snail connection. Otherwise
remove the hour tube and snail, and rivet/solder the connection.

Not shown by you photo, there often is a hour hand locating protrusion on
the hour tube, this for Korean clocks especially.

Post by t***@hotmail.com
The hour hand is not loose on the tube - there are some notches on the
collet that fit in nicely and allow them to move together. It's just
that the tube itself moves too freely, with or without the hour hand,
so I'd say it's loose where it connects to the clock. How to tighten
the tube on the snail (if that's the answer)?
-Tim

[dAz]

Post by t***@hotmail.com
The hour hand is not loose on the tube - there are some notches on the
collet that fit in nicely and allow them to move together. It's just
that the tube itself moves too freely, with or without the hour hand,
so I'd say it's loose where it connects to the clock. How to tighten
the tube on the snail (if that's the answer)?

ok, those Korean clock use a clutch on the hour wheel, the notches only
allow the hour hand to fit on one way(one of the notches is slightly
wider than the other), the idea is to allow the hour hand to be moved
independently for quick setting of daylight savings etc,

I don't have one in front of me so am going by memory, the pipe of the
hour wheel has the snail riveted to it, the hour wheel slips on the pipe
and a dish shaped spring fits behind that then the pipe is beaded over
to hold this in place.

so either the rivet has failed or the tension has come loose for some
reason.

there is a retainer that keeps the hour wheel in place, just unto the
nut holding it in place and carefully slide the hour wheel off, have a
look at the back and see what the problem is.

if you can tighten the rivet, do so, try and repair this part so you can
still move the pipe, in other words the clutch still works, the reason
is if you do make this solid then you will have line up the wheel and
snail to each other before hand.

apart from the convenience of being able to move the hour hand (not a
new idea, English long case and bracket clocks used this over 200 years
ago), it also made the setup of the strike simpler since the position of
the hour and snail were tied to each other, with a solid hour wheel it
has to be positioned correctly in relation of when the rack drops and
where the rack hook lands on the snail, get this out of place and the
clock will mis-strike, the lugs on the hourhand collet will need to be
removed so the hand can placed in the right position.

[t***@hotmail.com]

Thanks for all the advice! I did some tweaking/pulling/turning a bit in
there to see if I could sort of sense why the resistance had failed,
and somehow or other, I did something correctly and now the hour hand
operates properly again!

I suppose I'd feel a LITTLE better if I knew exactly what I'd done to
fix it, but I suppose the fact that it's working again fine is enough
for now.

Thanks Baron and dAz for your help!!! I really do appreciate your
willingness to share your expertise.

-Tim

[The Baron]

Keep that tube of super glue handy, you never know.

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Thanks for all the advice! I did some tweaking/pulling/turning a bit in
there to see if I could sort of sense why the resistance had failed,
and somehow or other, I did something correctly and now the hour hand
operates properly again!
I suppose I'd feel a LITTLE better if I knew exactly what I'd done to
fix it, but I suppose the fact that it's working again fine is enough
for now.
Thanks Baron and dAz for your help!!! I really do appreciate your
willingness to share your expertise.
-Tim

[t***@hotmail.com]

OK, I may have declared it "working" a bit too soon! Now the hour hand
gets stuck at the 12 o'oclock position when it arrives there. From 1 to
11, the clock runs beautifully (I've had to adjust the weight on the
pendulum to speed it up a bit), but every morning now, I wake up and
hear it chiming 12 times on every hour (the minute hand does continue
to go around properly, and I do get the single chime on the half hour).


So, did I tighten something too much?

Also, if I wanted to take the hour tube off (that which is riveted to
the snail) to see what's behind it and what may be responsible for the
sticking (or may have been responsible for the disengaging), how would
I do so? Just pull with pliers or something?

-Tim

Post by The Baron
Keep that tube of super glue handy, you never know.

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Thanks for all the advice! I did some tweaking/pulling/turning a bit in
there to see if I could sort of sense why the resistance had failed,
and somehow or other, I did something correctly and now the hour hand
operates properly again!
I suppose I'd feel a LITTLE better if I knew exactly what I'd done to
fix it, but I suppose the fact that it's working again fine is enough
for now.
Thanks Baron and dAz for your help!!! I really do appreciate your
willingness to share your expertise.
-Tim

[The Baron]

Remove the dial and observe it striking several hours. Does the snail
move? There may be a gear behind the snail that is not moving , or is
moving, but not the snail.

Post by t***@hotmail.com
OK, I may have declared it "working" a bit too soon! Now the hour hand
gets stuck at the 12 o'oclock position when it arrives there. From 1 to
11, the clock runs beautifully (I've had to adjust the weight on the
pendulum to speed it up a bit), but every morning now, I wake up and
hear it chiming 12 times on every hour (the minute hand does continue
to go around properly, and I do get the single chime on the half hour).
So, did I tighten something too much?
Also, if I wanted to take the hour tube off (that which is riveted to
the snail) to see what's behind it and what may be responsible for the
sticking (or may have been responsible for the disengaging), how would
I do so? Just pull with pliers or something?
-Tim

Post by The Baron
Keep that tube of super glue handy, you never know.

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Thanks for all the advice! I did some tweaking/pulling/turning a bit in
there to see if I could sort of sense why the resistance had failed,
and somehow or other, I did something correctly and now the hour hand
operates properly again!
I suppose I'd feel a LITTLE better if I knew exactly what I'd done to
fix it, but I suppose the fact that it's working again fine is enough
for now.
Thanks Baron and dAz for your help!!! I really do appreciate your
willingness to share your expertise.
-Tim

[The Baron]

And what happened?

Post by The Baron
Remove the dial and observe it striking several hours. Does the snail
move? There may be a gear behind the snail that is not moving , or is
moving, but not the snail.

Post by t***@hotmail.com
OK, I may have declared it "working" a bit too soon! Now the hour hand
gets stuck at the 12 o'oclock position when it arrives there. From 1 to
11, the clock runs beautifully (I've had to adjust the weight on the
pendulum to speed it up a bit), but every morning now, I wake up and
hear it chiming 12 times on every hour (the minute hand does continue
to go around properly, and I do get the single chime on the half hour).
So, did I tighten something too much?
Also, if I wanted to take the hour tube off (that which is riveted to
the snail) to see what's behind it and what may be responsible for the
sticking (or may have been responsible for the disengaging), how would
I do so? Just pull with pliers or something?
-Tim

Post by The Baron
Keep that tube of super glue handy, you never know.

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Thanks for all the advice! I did some tweaking/pulling/turning a bit

in

Post by t***@hotmail.com

Post by The Baron

Post by t***@hotmail.com
there to see if I could sort of sense why the resistance had failed,
and somehow or other, I did something correctly and now the hour hand
operates properly again!
I suppose I'd feel a LITTLE better if I knew exactly what I'd done to
fix it, but I suppose the fact that it's working again fine is enough
for now.
Thanks Baron and dAz for your help!!! I really do appreciate your
willingness to share your expertise.
-Tim