ETA 2824-2 problem

[w***@hot.mail.com]

One of my ETA 2824s has developed a problem. When I try to wind it the
rotor spins with each wind!

Anyone know what that is? It's an Invicta 9937 Submariner lookalike. I
absolutely hate Invicta's customer service so I'm reluctant to send it to
them. Yes, it's under warranty but I have had bad luck with them in the
past. Anyway, thanks for any info.

[dAz]

Post by w***@hot.mail.com
One of my ETA 2824s has developed a problem. When I try to wind it the
rotor spins with each wind!
Anyone know what that is? It's an Invicta 9937 Submariner lookalike. I
absolutely hate Invicta's customer service so I'm reluctant to send it to
them. Yes, it's under warranty but I have had bad luck with them in the
past. Anyway, thanks for any info.

your reverser wheels are sticky, try holding the watch in a more
vertical position instead of flat when winding it.

these autos are not built for handwinding and will wear out components
in time, its only really there to wind the watch a few times prior to
wearing it, if the watch has been allowed to run down.

with sticky reverser wheels the auto will still work, just not as
efficiently as it should, you should get it checked, specially since it
is still under warrantee.

[Mike]

Post by dAz

Post by w***@hot.mail.com
One of my ETA 2824s has developed a problem. When I try to wind it the
rotor spins with each wind!
Anyone know what that is? It's an Invicta 9937 Submariner lookalike. I
absolutely hate Invicta's customer service so I'm reluctant to send it to
them. Yes, it's under warranty but I have had bad luck with them in the
past. Anyway, thanks for any info.

your reverser wheels are sticky, try holding the watch in a more
vertical position instead of flat when winding it.
these autos are not built for handwinding and will wear out components
in time, its only really there to wind the watch a few times prior to
wearing it, if the watch has been allowed to run down.
with sticky reverser wheels the auto will still work, just not as
efficiently as it should, you should get it checked, specially since it
is still under warrantee.

Thanks. I guess I'll have to send it in to Invicta and pray they don't
screw it up.

[Angelino2]

Hello Watch.wearer:

First, try not winding the ETA too much. Actually, since it's an
automatic, you should be wearing it at least 8 hours a day---that keeps it
wound enough to maintain itself. Why are you winding it, may I ask? If
you find that you don't wear it everyday, try to only shake it left to
right, rather than winding it. Sometimes with ETA, I have noticed with
mine that is, when it's close to being fully wound, the rotor stiffens.
Also, the rotor of the 2824 is stiff by nature, it's not as smooth as with
the 7S26, Miyota 8205/8215. The ETA moves in steps.

How long have you had it?
Has it been lubed?
Maybe time for some oil?

Could be many factors, but the first remedy is to NOT wind it manually.
Just shake it left to right at least 10-15 times, or until you get it
going, then wear it at least 8 hours.

Keep me posted,

Angelis

[Mike]

Post by Angelino2
First, try not winding the ETA too much. Actually, since it's an
automatic, you should be wearing it at least 8 hours a day---that keeps it
wound enough to maintain itself. Why are you winding it, may I ask?

Because I have 8 other automatics and only one 4 slot winder so the
watches that aren't on the winder would get manually wound. I was under
the mistaken impression that hand winding was not harmful and that keeping
the movement wound kept the oils distributed.

Post by Angelino2
you find that you don't wear it everyday, try to only shake it left to
right, rather than winding it. Sometimes with ETA, I have noticed with
mine that is, when it's close to being fully wound, the rotor stiffens.

I noticed that too.

Post by Angelino2
How long have you had it?

I bought it brand new in July.

[Frank Adam]

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:44:35 +0100, "Angelino2"

Post by Angelino2
First, try not winding the ETA too much. Actually, since it's an
automatic, you should be wearing it at least 8 hours a day---that keeps it
wound enough to maintain itself. Why are you winding it, may I ask? If
you find that you don't wear it everyday, try to only shake it left to
right, rather than winding it. Sometimes with ETA, I have noticed with
mine that is, when it's close to being fully wound, the rotor stiffens.
Also, the rotor of the 2824 is stiff by nature, it's not as smooth as with
the 7S26, Miyota 8205/8215. The ETA moves in steps.
How long have you had it?
Has it been lubed?
Maybe time for some oil?

Stiff rotor moving in steps ? Perhaps you should also check your above
check list. :)

You're right though about 'not winding an auto'. The ETA main spring
is a fairly heavy one, so once wound past 1/3 to half ways, the spring
will become quite tight, putting a lot of strain on all the winding
wheels and those reversers wil cost an arm and a leg..
I would not recommend more than 2-3 winds at the crown on any auto
watch, and even that only when fully ran down.

As for the rotor being stiff, it's not that. It's just that the ETA
rotor drives a double reverser, so it is a bit more jerky and more
picky about the condition of the wheels and of course the oil.
The Miyota rotor is in fact "stiffer", as in, it finds it harder to
wind the spring(a small gear ratio mismatch IMO) but it only winds one
way, so the constant back and forth movement overcomes that.
Seiko without a doubt has the smoothest and arguably the best[1] auto
design and i guess that is the promary reason why they didn't see the
addition of a hand wind mechanism as an issue.. Two shakes and a Seiko
is off and running. More with an ETA and even more with the Miyota.

[1]Apart from those good old no nonsense knockers, of course. ;-)

[Mike]

Post by Frank Adam
As for the rotor being stiff, it's not that. It's just that the ETA
rotor drives a double reverser, so it is a bit more jerky and more
picky about the condition of the wheels and of course the oil.

Frank, do you know of any sites that have pictures of the various parts of
a watch movement?

Thanks

[dAz]

Post by Mike

Post by Frank Adam
As for the rotor being stiff, it's not that. It's just that the ETA
rotor drives a double reverser, so it is a bit more jerky and more
picky about the condition of the wheels and of course the oil.

Frank, do you know of any sites that have pictures of the various parts of
a watch movement?

some here
http://www.ofrei.com/page434.html

ETA 2892-A2
http://www.ofrei.com/page435.html

[Tony Stanford]

I never wind my ETA 2836. A couple of shakes gets it going, and once
it's on my wrist, I've never had a problem, although I don't put it on
late in the evening and expect it to keep going all night.

You can *feel* the resistance if you try to wind it (which I did once as
an experiment). It doesn't even feel like a good idea. Can't understand
why people want to wind it manually. Mine keeps going for 39-40 hours
when left off. My 7S26 manages 44. OK, so if you leave it off too long,
it stops and you have to reset it. That's a lot less wear and tear than
winding it to keep it going unnecessarily.

[Mike]

Post by Tony Stanford
Can't understand
why people want to wind it manually.

In my case I did so because I have 9 automatics that I can't wear at the
same time. I was told winding them kept the oils distributed and thus kept
the watch healthy.

[Tony Stanford]

Post by Mike

Post by Tony Stanford
Can't understand
why people want to wind it manually.

In my case I did so because I have 9 automatics that I can't wear at the
same time. I was told winding them kept the oils distributed and thus kept
the watch healthy.

Yes, I was told that, too - or I read it somewhere.

When I inquired on this group, however, the professionals suggested that
it was a waste of time and incurred unnecessary wear and did little
good. There was a longish debate. So I've stopped keeping my watches
wound when I'm not wearing them.

[Angelino2]

Hey Tony:

You are right. But what has to be looked into further is why? There
really is no reason to keep the watches wound. Yes, it's true, that the
popular notion is that the you don't want the oils to coagulate---okay,
but that's really more to do with watches that can be wound, not the
7S26/36, and other non-winding watches. And for that matter, the ones are
that are capable of hand-winding, are just fine without being in a winder.
Did you ever stop and wonder if the notion of keeping automatic watches in
winder was actually a notion invented by the sellers of watch winders?
Frankly, one of my joys with automatic watches is the actual setting of
the time, and getting them going---suffice it to say, I am not a fan of
winders.

My grandfather never had a winder, and yet his automatics lasted 22 years
in some cases---go figure?

My regards,

Angelis

[John S.]

Post by Angelino2
You are right. But what has to be looked into further is why? There
really is no reason to keep the watches wound. Yes, it's true, that the
popular notion is that the you don't want the oils to coagulate---okay,
but that's really more to do with watches that can be wound, not the
7S26/36, and other non-winding watches.

Keeping the watch movement running all the time will not have any
effect on coagulation of oils. Time and the incursion of dust cause
oil to thicken and constantly spinning pivots won't slow that process.

Post by Angelino2
And for that matter, the ones are
that are capable of hand-winding, are just fine without being in a winder.
Did you ever stop and wonder if the notion of keeping automatic watches in
winder was actually a notion invented by the sellers of watch winders?

There is one local watch dealer that has one Omega on a winder in a
window display, but I've always though the idea was to use movement to
catch the eye more than anything else. Kinda like the old Timex drop
and dip displays of many years back. Most watch dealers in my area
display high-end watches not running.

With the exception of a highly complex mechanical movement with lots of
settings I can think of no practical reason to use a watch winder.
Yes, I know some owners will have reasons to jutify their expensive
watch flip-over machine, but the real reason is a serious case of GAS
(Gadget Acquisition Syndrome).

Post by Angelino2
Frankly, one of my joys with automatic watches is the actual setting of
the time, and getting them going---suffice it to say, I am not a fan of
winders.
My grandfather never had a winder, and yet his automatics lasted 22 years
in some cases---go figure?

Yes, I have an Omega Seamaster 17 jewel automatic that was given to me
new in 1971. Despite two inadvertent to attempts to destroy it and
letting it run for over 12 years with no service it runs and looks just
fine. And it receives regular service now.

Post by Angelino2
My regards,
Angelis

[Angelino2]

Hey Watch.Wearer:

Well, the watch with the ETA I am referring two was bought 2 years 6
months ago. And I wound it so much, that the winding stem broke in half.
I had it under warranty, so that was replaced with no effort. And it was
my jeweler, from Switzerland himself---excellent NYC jeweler, who told me
to almost never wind an automatic from the crown. He told me to just
swing it left-to-right at least 8-10 times to get it going, and then wear
it at least 8 hours a day. And I believe that I follow this advice with
my watches.

But, my Miyotas are running well, even though they also manually wind, I
never have a winding issue with them, and neither with the Seikos. I tell
you, I think that the Japanese are really rivals to the Swiss---but just
not on such the same level.

All my best,

Angelis

[Frank Adam]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[John S.]

Post by w***@hot.mail.com
One of my ETA 2824s has developed a problem. When I try to wind it the
rotor spins with each wind!
Anyone know what that is? It's an Invicta 9937 Submariner lookalike. I
absolutely hate Invicta's customer service so I'm reluctant to send it to
them. Yes, it's under warranty but I have had bad luck with them in the
past. Anyway, thanks for any info.

If it is under warranty send it in with a description of the problem
and the cause described above. Chances are they will replace it.

[Mooron]

Post by John S.

Post by w***@hot.mail.com
One of my ETA 2824s has developed a problem. When I try to wind it the
rotor spins with each wind!
Anyone know what that is? It's an Invicta 9937 Submariner lookalike. I
absolutely hate Invicta's customer service so I'm reluctant to send it to
them. Yes, it's under warranty but I have had bad luck with them in the
past. Anyway, thanks for any info.

If it is under warranty send it in with a description of the problem
and the cause described above. Chances are they will replace it.

If you send it to Invicta repair, be sure to send it by insured mail.
Invicta has a history of losing stuff.

- Mooron