Rolex Submariner Reliability?

[Rob]

Hi

I have a Submariner which I've owned from new since 1989.

I only tend to wear it on special occasions so much of the time its kept in
a drawer.

Maybe it just the luck of the draw but my Rolex has died yet again! For the
third time!!

I find it just stops and wont tick and on giving it a little shake can hear
something rattling inside.

Given how infrequently I wear it and for normal social use I'm astounded.
So now I'm curious to know is this typical or really just my rotten luck? Do
Friday afternoon or Monday morning Rolexes exist? Should we expect to have
to get it serviced once every 4-5 years?

Makes me shudder when I see those expensive Rolex ad's picturing some Artic
explorer or similar intrepid adventurer with some story about how they can
always rely on their Rolex! Hmmm sorry not me I know what I'll be wearing...

Just in case you're wondering... this isn't a trolls attempt to stir up some
anti Rolex noise. I love my Sub but just really upset it should go wrong yet
again!

Thanks

Rob

[Honest John]

"Rob" <***@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message

"Maybe it just the luck of the draw but my Rolex has died yet again!"

It's simply a "curse"; have you ever thought of the "Rite of Exorcism" ?

[Frank Adam]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[John S.]

"I have a Submariner which I've owned from new since 1989....Should we
expect to have to get it serviced once every 4-5 years?"

Well, in a word...yes. Both fictional and real artic explorers would
have the fine movement in their watches serviced twice a decade. Think
how often you get the oil changed on your car, and what it costs over 5
years. Your Rolex is long long overdue for the horological equivalent
of an lube, oil & filter change..

[Jack Denver]

Cleaned & lubed every 5 years yes. But the movement should not be breaking
down this often. I'm guessing the rotor has broken loose because Rolex
insists on using a jeweled center pivot instead of a more rugged ball
bearing.

Post by John S.
"I have a Submariner which I've owned from new since 1989....Should we
expect to have to get it serviced once every 4-5 years?"
Well, in a word...yes. Both fictional and real artic explorers would
have the fine movement in their watches serviced twice a decade. Think
how often you get the oil changed on your car, and what it costs over 5
years. Your Rolex is long long overdue for the horological equivalent
of an lube, oil & filter change..

[John S.]

Yes, that is probably the cause of the rattling noise. For that kind
of damage top occur to a lightly used watch, I wonder if it hasn't been
dropped one or more times on weekend forays.

From the email I wasn't sure if the movement had ever been serviced,

thus the "lecture".

[Poor Man]

You can drop a Seiko 5, but no one will be impressed when you wear one.

Post by John S.
Yes, that is probably the cause of the rattling noise. For that kind
of damage top occur to a lightly used watch, I wonder if it hasn't been
dropped one or more times on weekend forays.

From the email I wasn't sure if the movement had ever been serviced,

thus the "lecture".

[dAz]

Post by Poor Man
You can drop a Seiko 5, but no one will be impressed when you wear one.

really, well since I bought myself a Seiko 5 last year I have sold 6 of
them to friends all because they like the look of mine, and my normal
business is repairs and restorations of watches and clocks, not selling
them.

[t***@visto.com]

Post by Poor Man
You can drop a Seiko 5, but no one will be impressed when you wear one.

Post by John S.
Yes, that is probably the cause of the rattling noise. For that kind
of damage top occur to a lightly used watch, I wonder if it hasn't been
dropped one or more times on weekend forays.

This sort of problem isn't what I'd put under the aegis of 'regular
servicing'.

Broken parts is a pretty serious issue. I'd be upset if any watch of
the calibre of a Rolex had broken parts. I suppose some people might
blame it on infreqent wear. Some even might go the other way and blame
it on everyday wear if you wear it every day!

If you're telling me it's a 'submariner' with a 200m depth rating and
Rolex parrot on about Antarctic missions, you can understand why people
are upset.

T.

[John S.]

Damage like that has to come from a sudden impact of some kind.

[John S.]

I would have to disagree. I acquired a Seiko diver new that was a
reissue of a 1970 orange dial. I've had three offers from people who
were taken by the style. A Seiko SLM009 "Mars" style watch also
elicits favorable comments. Interesting styling isn't always
accompanied by snob appeal.

[Frank Adam]

Post by Poor Man
You can drop a Seiko 5, but no one will be impressed when you wear one.

Seikos also break when dropped, their ball bearing can disintegrate
quite handsomely, the posts are too thick and robust, so the bearing
must go.. In fact, i'm thinking of making a miniature pinball machine.

As for the Rolex, i'm no big Rolex fan, but i have never seen a Rolex
with a broken rotor post unless the customer confirmed that it was
indeed dropped from a balkony or some such.

[djohnson]

Post by Frank Adam
Seikos also break when dropped, their ball bearing can disintegrate
quite handsomely, the posts are too thick and robust, so the bearing
must go.. In fact, i'm thinking of making a miniature pinball

machine.
The Seiko rotors I've dealt with are barely harder to replace than a
battery. If parts are available and the damage doesn't leave fragments
to jam the train, I'd much rather the rotor bearing break than the
post.

[Norman M. Schwartz]

Why extend what happened to one Sub to all of them? Sure there are a lot of
busted Rolexes out there, or else all those service centers are just doing
overhauls and the like. One of my sons' GMT Master started to accumulate
water vapor beneath the crystal but I'll never know what caused it, maybe
the Rolex service center knows ;-)

[Stoat]

I've just had almost the same problem, my 1980's Sub (no date
bubbleback) was serviced by Rolex in the UK 3 years ago (sent to Rolex
UK I presume, I don't think they return them to Geneva though I could be
wrong). I never wear the watch, I always wear my GMT II, the Sub lived
in my safe for the entire time unworn (so why have one I hear you ask).

On getting the Sub out it wouldn't start by moving it around and even
when putting 12 winds onto the crown and wearing it for a couple of
hours whilst out with my dogs.

I dropped it in at my local Rolex dealer, they opened it up and said
that they could find no reason why it stopped, they "just touched" the
pallets and it started. They concluded that the oil must have dried a
bit with disuse.

My GMT II has been on my wrist since buying it over 5 years ago, never
had a problem with it, had it serviced after 3 years, the next is
looming up, costs around £130 a go here in the UK.

[Norman M. Schwartz]

I've just had almost the same problem, my 1980's Sub (no date bubbleback)
was serviced by Rolex in the UK 3 years ago (sent to Rolex UK I presume, I
don't think they return them to Geneva though I could be wrong). I never
wear the watch, I always wear my GMT II, the Sub lived in my safe for the
entire time unworn (so why have one I hear you ask).
On getting the Sub out it wouldn't start by moving it around and even when
putting 12 winds onto the crown and wearing it for a couple of hours
whilst out with my dogs.
I dropped it in at my local Rolex dealer, they opened it up and said that
they could find no reason why it stopped, they "just touched" the pallets
and it started. They concluded that the oil must have dried a bit with
disuse.

Could the take home lesson here be get a winder?

[Jack Denver]

Doubtful - lubricants dry out whether the watch is used or not. Running the
watch (especially when it is low on lubrication) causes wear that would not
occur if the watch were in the drawer. In short, winders hurt as much as
they help, if not more. The only legitimate reason I can think of for a
winder is if you have some ultra-complicated perpetual calendar where it is
a tremendous pain to reset the watch if it runs down. And even then, how
hard is it to wind a watch from the crown? I've never seen a more useless
invention, and to add insult to injury, most winders are ridiculously
overpriced.

Post by Norman M. Schwartz

I've just had almost the same problem, my 1980's Sub (no date bubbleback)
was serviced by Rolex in the UK 3 years ago (sent to Rolex UK I presume,
I don't think they return them to Geneva though I could be wrong). I
never wear the watch, I always wear my GMT II, the Sub lived in my safe
for the entire time unworn (so why have one I hear you ask).
On getting the Sub out it wouldn't start by moving it around and even
when putting 12 winds onto the crown and wearing it for a couple of hours
whilst out with my dogs.
I dropped it in at my local Rolex dealer, they opened it up and said that
they could find no reason why it stopped, they "just touched" the pallets
and it started. They concluded that the oil must have dried a bit with
disuse.

Could the take home lesson here be get a winder?

[Moka Java]

Post by Jack Denver
Doubtful - lubricants dry out whether the watch is used or not. Running the
watch (especially when it is low on lubrication) causes wear that would not
occur if the watch were in the drawer. In short, winders hurt as much as
they help, if not more. The only legitimate reason I can think of for a
winder is if you have some ultra-complicated perpetual calendar where it is
a tremendous pain to reset the watch if it runs down. And even then, how
hard is it to wind a watch from the crown?

Keeping a watch wound is a problem if you're not wearing it on a regular
basis. Hand winding an auto has it's own perils too. If I wind the
crown fast on this Sandoz skeleton (ETA 2824) that I'm wearing today, I
can see the rotor go round, fast. Can feel it too. If you can afford a
Patek perpetual calendar your butler can wind it slowly on the days you
don't wear it. ;-)

I've never seen a more useless

Post by Jack Denver
invention, and to add insult to injury, most winders are ridiculously
overpriced.

What's more, many of them are noisy and don't work well at all.

Richard "don't want a winder" F

[Jack Denver]

If winding the crown causes the rotor to spin, then the watch is in need of
service. This is not normal behavior. If the watch is not old enough to
require a full service, perhaps your watchmaker could service just the auto
mechanism.


The main problem with handwinding a watch with threaded crown is that the
crown has a limited # of cycles you can put it thru before you strip the
threads or damage the gasket. Threaded crowns get put in "perpetual"
watches for a reason - the idea is to seal the watch up and leave it sealed
as much as possible, which does not include daily handwinding. On an
unthreaded crown & a watch in good condition, handwinding an auto should be
no different than on a handwind watch, i.e. it should not affect the service
life of the watch.

Post by Moka Java
Keeping a watch wound is a problem if you're not wearing it on a regular
basis. Hand winding an auto has it's own perils too. If I wind the crown
fast on this Sandoz skeleton (ETA 2824) that I'm wearing today, I can see
the rotor go round, fast. Can feel it too. If you can afford a Patek
perpetual calendar your butler can wind it slowly on the days you don't
wear it. ;-)

[zog]

Post by Moka Java
Keeping a watch wound is a problem if you're not wearing it on a regular
basis. Hand winding an auto has it's own perils too. If I wind the
crown fast on this Sandoz skeleton (ETA 2824) that I'm wearing today, I
can see the rotor go round, fast. Can feel it too. If you can afford a
Patek perpetual calendar your butler can wind it slowly on the days you
don't wear it. ;-)

Jack is right, if your rotor is spinning like that it means the
reversers wheels in the auto system are binding, your watch is due for a
service or at least have someone check and clean the reversers.

one thing you could try is holding the watch more vertical rather then
flat so the rotor goes to the bottom and should hopefully stop it from
spinning around when you handwind it, but if it still does then you do
have problem, also if the winding feels very heavy while hold the watch
vertically is another sign the reversers are binding or sticky.

dAz

[dAz]

Post by Moka Java
Keeping a watch wound is a problem if you're not wearing it on a regular
basis. Hand winding an auto has it's own perils too. If I wind the
crown fast on this Sandoz skeleton (ETA 2824) that I'm wearing today, I
can see the rotor go round, fast.

Jack is right, if your rotor is spinning like that it means the
reversers wheels in the auto system are binding, your watch is due for a
service or at least have someone check and clean the reversers.

one thing you could try is holding the watch more vertical rather then
flat so the rotor goes to the bottom and should hopefully stop it from
spinning around when you handwind it, but if it still does then you do
have problem, also if the winding feels very heavy while hold the watch
vertically is another sign the reversers are binding or sticky.

dAz

[Moka Java]

Post by zog

Post by Moka Java
Keeping a watch wound is a problem if you're not wearing it on a
regular basis. Hand winding an auto has it's own perils too. If I
wind the crown fast on this Sandoz skeleton (ETA 2824) that I'm
wearing today, I can see the rotor go round, fast.

Jack is right, if your rotor is spinning like that it means the
reversers wheels in the auto system are binding, your watch is due for a
service or at least have someone check and clean the reversers.
one thing you could try is holding the watch more vertical rather then
flat so the rotor goes to the bottom and should hopefully stop it from
spinning around when you handwind it, but if it still does then you do
have problem, also if the winding feels very heavy while hold the watch
vertically is another sign the reversers are binding or sticky.
dAz

The rotor doesn't spin when the watch is vertical. I'm given to believe
that hand winding is not real healthy for an auto under the best of
circumstances.

Richard "been wrong before" F

[dAz]

Post by Moka Java
The rotor doesn't spin when the watch is vertical. I'm given to believe
that hand winding is not real healthy for an auto under the best of
circumstances.

depends a bit on the auto system, the ETA system has 2 reverser wheels
meshed to the rotor and to each other, then 2 more reduction wheels
before it drives the ratchet wheel, so when you wind it you are turning
the stem, winding pinion, crown wheel, ratchet wheel the 2 reduction
wheels and the 2 reversers

so yes handwinding is really only meant to get the watch going or started.

[Norman M. Schwartz]

Post by Jack Denver
Doubtful - lubricants dry out whether the watch is used or not. Running
the watch (especially when it is low on lubrication) causes wear that
would not occur if the watch were in the drawer. In short, winders hurt as
much as they help, if not more.

This could well be true, however if you have your (Rolex) serviced at a
proper place at the recommended intervals, the lubricant should not dry out
and the watch should keep running, after all this is the primary purpose of
owning a watch. You can also able to keep up with seeing how well the watch
is keeping time. As far as your objection to the expense of a winder goes,
good ones can be had on Ebay for a couple of hundred dollars or less.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29529&item=4983532878&rd=1

I don't enjoy having to re-set watches particularly those having a date
window, winding through a couple of days making sure the AM/PM is correctly
set. Perhaps if repeated often enough this can also be injurious, however
this is unimportant if it happens to be an inexpensive watch ;-)

[Moka Java]

Post by Rob
Hi
I have a Submariner which I've owned from new since 1989.
I only tend to wear it on special occasions so much of the time its kept in
a drawer.
Maybe it just the luck of the draw but my Rolex has died yet again! For the
third time!!
I find it just stops and wont tick and on giving it a little shake can hear
something rattling inside.
Given how infrequently I wear it and for normal social use I'm astounded.
So now I'm curious to know is this typical or really just my rotten luck? Do
Friday afternoon or Monday morning Rolexes exist? Should we expect to have
to get it serviced once every 4-5 years?
Makes me shudder when I see those expensive Rolex ad's picturing some Artic
explorer or similar intrepid adventurer with some story about how they can
always rely on their Rolex! Hmmm sorry not me I know what I'll be wearing...
Just in case you're wondering... this isn't a trolls attempt to stir up some
anti Rolex noise. I love my Sub but just really upset it should go wrong yet
again!
Thanks
Rob

In 1990 I bought a ca. 1953 Rolex Submariner for the princely sum of
$500. My brother liked it so I sold it to him for the same $500. We
had it serviced and it ran fine as his daily wear at +/- 2 mins per week
for about 5 years then started running screwy. Serviced in approx. 1995
it was fine for another 5 years. Serviced last in 2000, it's back in my
safe waiting for Tony the watchmaker to come pick it up.

My experience with other regularly worn mechanical watches, Omegas,
Movados, Universals, is roughly the same.

So if they're not worn regularly, but kept in a temperature and humidity
controlled house, in a clean, relatively dust free cabinet or safe, do I
still have to service them every 5 years?

Richard "aaahhh!!!" F

[John S.]

Yup.

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Moka Java

Post by Rob
Hi
I have a Submariner which I've owned from new since 1989.
I only tend to wear it on special occasions so much of the time its kept in
a drawer.
Maybe it just the luck of the draw but my Rolex has died yet again! For the
third time!!
I find it just stops and wont tick and on giving it a little shake can hear
something rattling inside.
Given how infrequently I wear it and for normal social use I'm astounded.
So now I'm curious to know is this typical or really just my rotten luck? Do
Friday afternoon or Monday morning Rolexes exist? Should we expect to have
to get it serviced once every 4-5 years?
Makes me shudder when I see those expensive Rolex ad's picturing some Artic
explorer or similar intrepid adventurer with some story about how they can
always rely on their Rolex! Hmmm sorry not me I know what I'll be wearing...
Just in case you're wondering... this isn't a trolls attempt to stir up some
anti Rolex noise. I love my Sub but just really upset it should go wrong yet
again!
Thanks
Rob

In 1990 I bought a ca. 1953 Rolex Submariner for the princely sum of
$500. My brother liked it so I sold it to him for the same $500. We
had it serviced and it ran fine as his daily wear at +/- 2 mins per week
for about 5 years then started running screwy. Serviced in approx. 1995
it was fine for another 5 years. Serviced last in 2000, it's back in my
safe waiting for Tony the watchmaker to come pick it up.
My experience with other regularly worn mechanical watches, Omegas,
Movados, Universals, is roughly the same.
So if they're not worn regularly, but kept in a temperature and humidity
controlled house, in a clean, relatively dust free cabinet or safe, do I
still have to service them every 5 years?
Richard "aaahhh!!!" F

No. Servicing quality watches every 3-5 years is a money making scheme for local repair shops and it actually causes more harm than good. Omega, for example, recommends it every 7-10 years depending on the model. Lubrication alone is not the holy grail of watch maintenance. There is more to it. Watches wear in the gears as they run. If you take them apart too often they get out of alignment because once taken apart, they can never be assembled exactly as they were. It's like piston rings inside an engine. No one ever takes an engine apart every 3-5K miles to lubricate the cylinders. The same is true of watches. Don't get me wrong, watches do need cleaning and lubrication, just not every 3-5 years. They need servicing if you see something unusual happening. However, if they run OK and are within factory original specs, once every 10 years is more than enough.