E. N. Welch Clock Needs Repair ...

[Linda]

Hello ...

I have received some great advice from this group in the past, and so
I am coming to you now for some advice about my E. N. Welch steeple
clock.

I purchased the clock about five years ago at an auction. I didn't
know if it would work -- I just loved the clock and the fact that it
was so old. Then about a year later, I took it to a clock shop and
had it serviced so that it would work. It has worked perfectly since
then.

It is an eight-day clock, and I have wound it with no problems.
However, about a week ago, I noticed that it did not resume ticking
when I restarted the pendulum. It would work for a few minutes and
then stop. After a few tries, the pendulum continued to tick.

The same thing happened yesterday. When it stopped for a second time,
I thought perhaps it needed winding. So I started winding the clock
the same way I have always done it. All of a sudden, while I was
winding it, there was a noise, and the clock key abruptly came out of
my hand with such force that it put a nick in the clock face and then
the key hit my hand and actually put a small bruise on my finger. And
now the clock will not wind at all.

Thankfully, it did not crack the glass in the door of the clock. The
nick in the face is noticeable, but I think I'll notice it less when I
get used to it for a while.

I guess the wire that winds the clock has broken? I don't know why
that would have happened because, as I said, I was winding the clock
as I always have, and it was winding with no resistance.

I am really sick about this because I love the clock so much, and I am
worried that this might be something serious. I hope that it can be
repaired and that it is not irreparably damaged. I am also worried
that if it can be repaired, it might be very expensive. It cost
$260.00 to get the clock in working order four years ago. I don't
know that I can spend that much or even more this time.

I am planning to take it to a local clock shop (a different one than
the one that did the work four years ago -- this one is closer to my
home). But I would greatly value any thoughts or advice you all might
have, or whether there is anything I should particularly ask or say to
the repair person.

Thank you very much for any thoughts of advice. As I said, I love
this clock and I am really upset about this.

Linda W.

[Linda]

Post by Linda
Hello ...
I have received some great advice from this group in the past, and so
I am coming to you now for some advice about my E. N. Welch steeple
clock.
I purchased the clock about five years ago at an auction.  I didn't
know if it would work -- I just loved the clock and the fact that it
was so old.  Then about a year later, I took it to a clock shop and
had it serviced so that it would work.  It has worked perfectly since
then.
It is an eight-day clock, and I have wound it with no problems.
However, about a week ago, I noticed that it did not resume ticking
when I restarted the pendulum.  It would work for a few minutes and
then stop.  After a few tries, the pendulum continued to tick.
The same thing happened yesterday.  When it stopped for a second time,
I thought perhaps it needed winding.  So I started winding the clock
the same way I have always done it.  All of a sudden, while I was
winding it, there was a noise, and the clock key abruptly came out of
my hand with such force that it put a nick in the clock face  and then
the key hit my hand and actually put a small bruise on my finger.  And
now the clock will not wind at all.
Thankfully, it did not crack the glass in the door of the clock.  The
nick in the face is noticeable, but I think I'll notice it less when I
get used to it for a while.
I guess the wire that winds the clock has broken?  I don't know why
that would have happened because, as I said, I was winding the clock
as I always have, and it was winding with no resistance.
I am really sick about this because I love the clock so much, and I am
worried that this might be something serious.  I hope that it can be
repaired and that it is not irreparably damaged.  I am also worried
that if it can be repaired, it might be very expensive.  It cost
$260.00 to get the clock in working order four years ago.  I don't
know that I can spend that much or even more this time.
I am planning to take it to a local clock shop (a different one than
the one that did the work four years ago -- this one is closer to my
home).  But I would greatly value any thoughts or advice you all might
have, or whether there is anything I should particularly ask or say to
the repair person.
Thank you very much for any thoughts of advice.  As I said, I love
this clock and I am really upset about this.
Linda W.

P.S. I live in Northern Virginia. If anyone knows of a particular
repair shop or repair person in the area that you'd recommend, I'd
very much appreciate the information.

[Loony]

Post by Linda

Post by Linda
Hello ...
I have received some great advice from this group in the past, and so
I am coming to you now for some advice about my E. N. Welch steeple
clock.
I purchased the clock about five years ago at an auction. I didn't
know if it would work -- I just loved the clock and the fact that it
was so old. Then about a year later, I took it to a clock shop and
had it serviced so that it would work. It has worked perfectly since
then.
It is an eight-day clock, and I have wound it with no problems.
However, about a week ago, I noticed that it did not resume ticking
when I restarted the pendulum. It would work for a few minutes and
then stop. After a few tries, the pendulum continued to tick.
The same thing happened yesterday. When it stopped for a second time,
I thought perhaps it needed winding. So I started winding the clock
the same way I have always done it. All of a sudden, while I was
winding it, there was a noise, and the clock key abruptly came out of
my hand with such force that it put a nick in the clock face and then
the key hit my hand and actually put a small bruise on my finger. And
now the clock will not wind at all.
Thankfully, it did not crack the glass in the door of the clock. The
nick in the face is noticeable, but I think I'll notice it less when I
get used to it for a while.
I guess the wire that winds the clock has broken? I don't know why
that would have happened because, as I said, I was winding the clock
as I always have, and it was winding with no resistance.
I am really sick about this because I love the clock so much, and I am
worried that this might be something serious. I hope that it can be
repaired and that it is not irreparably damaged. I am also worried
that if it can be repaired, it might be very expensive. It cost
$260.00 to get the clock in working order four years ago. I don't
know that I can spend that much or even more this time.
I am planning to take it to a local clock shop (a different one than
the one that did the work four years ago -- this one is closer to my
home). But I would greatly value any thoughts or advice you all might
have, or whether there is anything I should particularly ask or say to
the repair person.
Thank you very much for any thoughts of advice. As I said, I love
this clock and I am really upset about this.
Linda W.

P.S. I live in Northern Virginia. If anyone knows of a particular
repair shop or repair person in the area that you'd recommend, I'd
very much appreciate the information.

I have many clocks myself that need cleaning and oiling and I am hoping
to have some time to start on them soon. Have you tried some clock oil
on the bearings?

[Linda]

Post by Loony

Post by Linda
Hello ...
I have received some great advice from this group in the past, and so
I am coming to you now for some advice about my E. N. Welch steeple
clock.
I purchased the clock about five years ago at an auction.  I didn't
know if it would work -- I just loved the clock and the fact that it
was so old.  Then about a year later, I took it to a clock shop and
had it serviced so that it would work.  It has worked perfectly since
then.
It is an eight-day clock, and I have wound it with no problems.
However, about a week ago, I noticed that it did not resume ticking
when I restarted the pendulum.  It would work for a few minutes and
then stop.  After a few tries, the pendulum continued to tick.
The same thing happened yesterday.  When it stopped for a second time,
I thought perhaps it needed winding.  So I started winding the clock
the same way I have always done it.  All of a sudden, while I was
winding it, there was a noise, and the clock key abruptly came out of
my hand with such force that it put a nick in the clock face  and then
the key hit my hand and actually put a small bruise on my finger.  And
now the clock will not wind at all.
Thankfully, it did not crack the glass in the door of the clock.  The
nick in the face is noticeable, but I think I'll notice it less when I
get used to it for a while.
I guess the wire that winds the clock has broken?  I don't know why
that would have happened because, as I said, I was winding the clock
as I always have, and it was winding with no resistance.
I am really sick about this because I love the clock so much, and I am
worried that this might be something serious.  I hope that it can be
repaired and that it is not irreparably damaged.  I am also worried
that if it can be repaired, it might be very expensive.  It cost
$260.00 to get the clock in working order four years ago.  I don't
know that I can spend that much or even more this time.
I am planning to take it to a local clock shop (a different one than
the one that did the work four years ago -- this one is closer to my
home).  But I would greatly value any thoughts or advice you all might
have, or whether there is anything I should particularly ask or say to
the repair person.
Thank you very much for any thoughts of advice.  As I said, I love
this clock and I am really upset about this.
Linda W.

P.S.  I live in Northern Virginia.  If anyone knows of a particular
repair shop or repair person in the area that you'd recommend, I'd
very much appreciate the information.

I have many clocks myself that need cleaning and oiling and I am hoping
to have some time to start on them soon. Have you tried some clock oil
on the bearings?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't really know how to do that ... and
I think it's actually more than that. Frank;s diagnosis (below)
sounds likely, based on what happened when I was winding the clock.
Thanks again!

[Frank Adam]

Post by Linda
Hello ...
I have received some great advice from this group in the past, and so
I am coming to you now for some advice about my E. N. Welch steeple
clock.

No way, it had to be a different group. ;-)

<snip>

Post by Linda
the same way I have always done it. All of a sudden, while I was
winding it, there was a noise, and the clock key abruptly came out of
my hand with such force that it put a nick in the clock face and then
the key hit my hand and actually put a small bruise on my finger. And
now the clock will not wind at all.
Thankfully, it did not crack the glass in the door of the clock. The
nick in the face is noticeable, but I think I'll notice it less when I
get used to it for a while.
I guess the wire that winds the clock has broken? I don't know why
that would have happened because, as I said, I was winding the clock
as I always have, and it was winding with no resistance.

The click spring only lives so long and when it goes, it is instantaneous.
The click itself can also get lose and it just flicks out when the power is
back on. Again, this happens in an instant and there is virtually no warning.

Post by Linda
I am really sick about this because I love the clock so much, and I am
worried that this might be something serious. I hope that it can be
repaired and that it is not irreparably damaged. I am also worried
that if it can be repaired, it might be very expensive. It cost
$260.00 to get the clock in working order four years ago. I don't
know that I can spend that much or even more this time.
I am planning to take it to a local clock shop (a different one than
the one that did the work four years ago -- this one is closer to my
home). But I would greatly value any thoughts or advice you all might
have, or whether there is anything I should particularly ask or say to
the repair person.
Thank you very much for any thoughts of advice. As I said, I love
this clock and I am really upset about this.

Sounds like it is the click or click spring is what broke.
The worst thing that can happen is to have the inside of a spring break, or
indeed the click letting go(which is very similar to the spring breaking at
the inside). As opposed to an outer anchor breakage which kinda slips and
slows down the effects, you are releasing a lot of power in an instance.
Not good news. When something this drastic happens, often there can be damage
to the wheels next to the spring. Teeth can bend or break off, pinions
(lanterns mainly) get ripped or the arbors bend.

If you were to tell me this over the phone, my unseen quote would be ranging
from a simple service(as the clock has to come apart) + click/spring (around
$200) --- to a service, click/spring + teeth or arbor work on the next 1 or
two wheels(possibly up to 350). And i'm charging between trade and retail
prices here, closer to trade in fact.

I'm afraid it will probably cost you a fair bit more than the original service
was. If the guy still charges 260, you could expect an extra 40-60 just for
the click work and if wheels are damaged, some people go really hard on their
prices.

Being in Australia, i'm sorry i can't help more, but let us know how it went
with your clock guy.

[Linda]

Post by Frank Adam

Post by Linda
Hello ...
I have received some great advice from this group in the past, and so
I am coming to you now for some advice about my E. N. Welch steeple
clock.

No way, it had to be a different group. ;-)
<snip>>the same way I have always done it.  All of a sudden, while I was

Post by Linda
winding it, there was a noise, and the clock key abruptly came out of
my hand with such force that it put a nick in the clock face  and then
the key hit my hand and actually put a small bruise on my finger.  And
now the clock will not wind at all.
Thankfully, it did not crack the glass in the door of the clock.  The
nick in the face is noticeable, but I think I'll notice it less when I
get used to it for a while.
I guess the wire that winds the clock has broken?  I don't know why
that would have happened because, as I said, I was winding the clock
as I always have, and it was winding with no resistance.

The click spring only lives so long and when it goes, it is instantaneous.
The click itself can also get lose and it just flicks out when the power is
back on. Again, this happens in an instant and there is virtually no warning.

Post by Linda
I am really sick about this because I love the clock so much, and I am
worried that this might be something serious.  I hope that it can be
repaired and that it is not irreparably damaged.  I am also worried
that if it can be repaired, it might be very expensive.  It cost
$260.00 to get the clock in working order four years ago.  I don't
know that I can spend that much or even more this time.
I am planning to take it to a local clock shop (a different one than
the one that did the work four years ago -- this one is closer to my
home).  But I would greatly value any thoughts or advice you all might
have, or whether there is anything I should particularly ask or say to
the repair person.
Thank you very much for any thoughts of advice.  As I said, I love
this clock and I am really upset about this.

Sounds like it is the click or click spring is what broke.
The worst thing that can happen is to have the inside of a spring break, or
indeed the click letting go(which is very similar to the spring breaking at
the inside). As opposed to an outer anchor breakage which kinda slips and
slows down the effects, you are releasing a lot of power in an instance.
Not good news. When something this drastic happens, often there can be damage
to the wheels next to the spring. Teeth can bend or break off, pinions
(lanterns mainly) get ripped or the arbors bend.
If you were to tell me this over the phone, my unseen quote would be ranging
from a simple service(as the clock has to come apart) + click/spring (around
$200) ---  to a service, click/spring + teeth or arbor work on the next 1 or
two wheels(possibly up to 350). And i'm charging between trade and retail
prices here, closer to trade in fact.
I'm afraid it will probably cost you a fair bit more than the original service
was. If the guy still charges 260, you could expect an extra 40-60 just for
the click work and if wheels are damaged, some people go really hard on their
prices.
Being in Australia, i'm sorry i can't help more, but let us know how it went
with your clock guy.
--
Regards, Frank- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Thanks, Frank. I appreciate your taking the time to provide so much
information. I had an online exchange with a man who does repairs who
lives about two hours from me, and his thoughts were much the same as
yours. He said that in 35 years, he's had three broken fingers happen
in a similar circumstance. I'm lucky that didn't happen (I just have
some bruises) ... and so lucky that it didn't break the glass in the
door of the clock.

I'm going to take it to a different place than the one I went before
-- I'm going there on Monday to get an estimate. It's close to where
I live. I have a feeling they're going to be on the pricey side. Then
I'll probably get a few more estimates before making a decision.
There's another man I found online who is about an hour from me. I'm
going to call him on Monday. I'd be willing to travel that far.

If I get estimates as high as you mentioned or higher, I'm really
going to have a decision to make. It's so much money, especially
since I just spent the $260.00 four years ago. But at the same time,
I love the clock and I love having it actually working. So I'll just
see where things are after I get some estimates, and then I'll have to
decide just how much more I can invest.

Quick question, if I may -- do you think what has happened could have
been/should have been noticed when I had the clock put in working
order four years ago? Or is this just something unpredictable that
can happen at any time? In which case, could it happen again/keep
happening?

Thanks again for all the great and helpful information. I'll let you
know how it goes.

Linda

[Frank Adam]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:56:11 -0700 (PDT), Linda <***@verizon.net> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Linda
Quick question, if I may -- do you think what has happened could have
been/should have been noticed when I had the clock put in working
order four years ago? Or is this just something unpredictable that
can happen at any time? In which case, could it happen again/keep
happening?

Hard to say. The standard consumables in a clock are the click spring,
suspension spring and main spring(s). All these can and will fail in time.

If the click rivet went, that /may/ have been visible, but 4 years is a long
time, it can work itself loose easily in that time.
If the click spring failed, that would not show up at all 4 years ago. With
springs it is a bit like when you bend a piece of metal back and forth and
while it resists at first, all of a sudden it just becomes very weak and
easily breaks. So the degredation is slow over life, but when these parts
reach their time of death, the rate of failing becomes quite quick.

I've also seen the actual click snap in half. That is a fairly strong piece of
brass that simply had enough of work and decided to split. That is more of a
rare thing, but it happens.

Make sure the guy checks the other click and spring as well(if your clock is a
striker). When one goes, the other is always suspect. I'd also ask him to
evaluate the mainsprings. Just in case. You don't want to spend 300 then have
the mainspring go next week.

If they are replaced properly, the click and click spring should be good for
another 10-20 years minumum, probably much longer. Same with mainsprings and
suspension springs really.

Post by Linda
Thanks again for all the great and helpful information. I'll let you
know how it goes.

No worries. Hope the thumb heels up quick. I've never had one broken, but this
has happened to me a few times too. Part of the job and it hurts like hell for
days. Worst is when it gets you on the nail as well. You at least can cover
that up, but i'd feel real silly with red nail polish. Maybe green... :)

[Linda]

Post by Frank Adam
<snip>

Post by Linda
Quick question, if I may -- do you think what has happened could have
been/should have been noticed when I had the clock put in working
order four years ago?  Or is this just something unpredictable that
can happen at any time?  In which case, could it happen again/keep
happening?

Hard to say. The standard consumables in a clock are the click spring,
suspension spring and main spring(s). All these can and will fail in time.
If the click rivet went, that /may/ have been visible, but 4 years is a long
time, it can work itself loose easily in that time.
If the click spring failed, that would not show up at all 4 years ago. With
springs it is a bit like when you bend a piece of metal back and forth and
while it resists at first, all of a sudden it just becomes very weak and
easily breaks. So the degredation is slow over life, but when these parts
reach their time of death, the rate of failing becomes quite quick.
I've also seen the actual click snap in half. That is a fairly strong piece of
brass that simply had enough of work and decided to split. That is more of a
rare thing, but it happens.
Make sure the guy checks the other click and spring as well(if your clock is a
striker). When one goes, the other is always suspect. I'd also ask him to
evaluate the mainsprings. Just in case. You don't want to spend 300 then have
the mainspring go next week.
If they are replaced properly, the click and click spring should be good for
another 10-20 years minumum, probably much longer. Same with mainsprings and
suspension springs really.

Post by Linda
Thanks again for all the great and helpful information.  I'll let you
know how it goes.

No worries. Hope the thumb heels up quick. I've never had one broken, but this
has happened to me a few times too. Part of the job and it hurts like hell for
days. Worst is when it gets you on the nail as well. You at least can cover
that up, but i'd feel real silly with red nail polish. Maybe green... :)
--
Regards, Frank

Green polish sounds very attractive. :-)

Thanks again for such detailed information. I'm learning A LOT from
your responses! And now I know things that I need to mention when I
get estimates, et cetera.

I think I will also call the shop that did the other work -- although
they aren't the most friendly bunch over there, which is one reason
I'm hesitant to go back. From what I've been reading online, it seems
that some people who do clock repair communicate a lot with their
customers in terms of what work was done (and explaining it) and how
to do follow-up care, et cetera. The guys who did mine (a shop that
has been there a long time and, I believe, does a lot of business)
didn't really volunteer all that much information. In fact, he even
told me that the clock was c. 1920, and I was skeptical because that
style was not in fashion at that time, and because when I researched
the company, E.N. Welch was not even manufacturing clocks under that
name in 1920. I believe from my own research that it's more likely c.
1870s - 1890s-ish. Of course, their business is to fix clocks, not
necessarily to know much about when they were made. But they didn't
volunteer a lot of information about the repair, either.

Anyway ... thanks so much, Frank. I'll let you know what happens!

Linda