How to put back the incabloc spring?

[ABC]

This is an ETA 2824-2 with the lyre shape incabloc. Just like this
one(first image)

http://www.timetechtalk.com/forum1/5633.html

I opened the incabloc to clean the jewel. When I tried to put back the
jewel setting I found the the lyre shape spring had come off. How
could this happen? I thought it would just stay there because the
hinge was not supposed to come off.

Anyway I tried many ways and the hinge just would not go back in. I
searched the net and one suggestion was to dissemble the entire
balance cock.

If it could come out, there should be a way to put it back. Please
help.

[Frank Adam]

Post by ABC
This is an ETA 2824-2 with the lyre shape incabloc. Just like this
one(first image)
http://www.timetechtalk.com/forum1/5633.html
I opened the incabloc to clean the jewel. When I tried to put back the
jewel setting I found the the lyre shape spring had come off. How
could this happen? I thought it would just stay there because the
hinge was not supposed to come off.
Anyway I tried many ways and the hinge just would not go back in. I
searched the net and one suggestion was to dissemble the entire
balance cock.
If it could come out, there should be a way to put it back. Please
help.

LOL!
Sorry, I think we all hate when that happens. :)

They can come out. Beware of Omega 625s, where the bottom ones almost always
drop right out. They're bloody small too, but relatively easy to put back in
if you don't lose the buggers.

However, on the balance cock it's usually a bitch. If it came out,there has to
be a way for it to go back in, right ? Wrong.
That little bit of sideways flex which happens when you unhook the prongs, can
indeed flick the hinge out. Achieving the same amount of flex when you try to
put it back is pretty damn hard.

What you can try is:

Make sure the regulator and stud(if movable) is positioned in such way that it
exposes the most of one side of the groove the spring has to fit into. Then
you may be able to slot it in at an angle, by pushing one end in, and
following in with the other.

Hold the spring vertical, put one prong in and lightly try to force the other
prong into the grove with a small screwdriver. Great chance of "flickability"
and "breakability here", so be careful.

Sometimes you may need to have the spring angled at the cock(ie: a bit in the
half open position)

If all that fails. Pop the stud and regulator off the cock and then you can
easily put the spring in. To be honest, this is easier than it sounds and
certainly offers far less chance of breaking or losing the spring.
(if you do this, don't forget to first open the regulator and also release the
balance spring at the stud)

HTH.

[ABC]

Thanks Frank

Yes. It flew away.

Now I have to find a replacement. ofrei has some springs and a
complete set. May be I will get the FB 10019.I do not how this set is
like---it comes complete with "hole jewel, cap jewel & SPRING"--does
it mean it is the entire regulator set??

http://www.ofrei.com/page615.html#23544

Anyone selling assorted Inclabloc springs?

BTW, it may not be easy to release the stud. It is fixed between 2
prongs of a fork. So does the index pin. Is there a tool for this?


ABC

Post by Frank Adam
Make sure the regulator and stud(if movable) is positioned in such way that it
exposes the most of one side of the groove the spring has to fit into. Then
you may be able to slot it in at an angle, by pushing one end in, and
following in with the other.
Hold the spring vertical, put one prong in and lightly try to force the other
prong into the grove with a small screwdriver. Great chance of "flickability"
and "breakability here", so be careful.
Sometimes you may need to have the spring angled at the cock(ie: a bit in the
half open position)
If all that fails. Pop the stud and regulator off the cock and then you can
easily put the spring in. To be honest, this is easier than it sounds and
certainly offers far less chance of breaking or losing the spring.
(if you do this, don't forget to first open the regulator and also release the
balance spring at the stud)
HTH.

ABC

[Frank Adam]

Post by ABC
Thanks Frank
Yes. It flew away.
Now I have to find a replacement. ofrei has some springs and a
complete set. May be I will get the FB 10019.I do not how this set is
like---it comes complete with "hole jewel, cap jewel & SPRING"--does
it mean it is the entire regulator set??
http://www.ofrei.com/page615.html#23544

No. Just the spring. About 3 items up is the complete setting, but that still
doesn't include the jewel seat.

Post by ABC
Anyone selling assorted Inclabloc springs?
BTW, it may not be easy to release the stud. It is fixed between 2
prongs of a fork. So does the index pin. Is there a tool for this?

Like this one ?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/watcheta/404623750/

I think the index pin is the open type then, so you can leave that in place.
Just let the hair spring fall out of between the 2 pins to the *outside* of
the pins. Help it out of there if needed, by lightly lifting and ushering it
past the outer pin.
Then with the spring loose, the stud can be pushed out sideways(have the
balance hanging, but resting) out of that fork. There is probably a tool for
this, but if i bought every tool i'd be poorer than i already am. :)
I'd use the tip of the tweezers or a small blade screwdriver to go into the
gap between the stud and cock. Then just carefully twist the tool to lever the
stud off there. That whole thing works a bit like a circlip, but in reverse.
Instead of taking the circlip off, you're taking off the what the circlip goes
onto.

Going back in, it should just push form the side and snap in, then rehook the
hairspring between the regulator pins. Check hairspring for flatness and
presto. Job done.

One thing to note: Once or twice, the actual stud holder came off, before the
stud itself. Don't panic, just put the the whole thing down and slide the stud
holder clear from the balance cock, then remove the stud from the holder when
all is safe and flat on the bench.
If you're brave, you may get away with not removing the stud at all, just pop
the stud holder ring off the balance cock. However, this is more dangerous as
the hairspring will always be attached and often putting the stud
holder/regulator ring back together onto the cock can be a pig of a job, so
having the balance hanging about there just adds to your problems.

It's a good thing(if you haven't got one yet) to make a balance cock holder.
I'm going on a limb here, but i reckon every watchmaker would have a coin(say
20-25mmm diam) with a long tapered pin in the middle of it.
Get a coin or flat piece of metal and a brass pin about 3mm diameter and taper
a 30-40mm length of the pin evenly to a sharp point. Make it smooth-ish and
cut off to size. Drill a 2.5mm hole in the coin and ream it to about 2.8 or
so. Push the pin through and hammer it flush. You can reinforce on the other
side with a bit of solder if needed, but it should be tight enough.

Then you can put the balance cock on this pin via the screw hole and have both
your hands available for this type of finicky work. It also allows the balance
to drop away from the cock, so chances of damage to the hairspring is reduced.
That said, when you remove the stud, the balance should not be free floating,
it should be hanging down, but propped up by placing a bit of Rodico under it.
You do not want the balance weight on the hairspring when the stud holder
comes off.

Phew. Sorry, i'll keep it short next time. :)

[ABC]

OK. I fixed it.

Bought a complete balance from a watch scrap yard. Used the balance
cock to practise a little. Removed the regulator from the "real" watch
and I put the incabloc spring back in.

I think the most difficult step is the removal of the stud. I almost
damaged the practice piece. I will figure out a tool some time......

One thing I have learned. It is much safer and more efficient to use a
flat tip tweezer to hold the lyre shape spring--by grabbing both
prongs of the open end. It won't fly away.


ABC

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:57:05 +1100, Frank Adam

Post by Frank Adam
I think the index pin is the open type then, so you can leave that in place.
Just let the hair spring fall out of between the 2 pins to the *outside* of
the pins. Help it out of there if needed, by lightly lifting and ushering it
past the outer pin.
Then with the spring loose, the stud can be pushed out sideways(have the
balance hanging, but resting) out of that fork. There is probably a tool for
this, but if i bought every tool i'd be poorer than i already am. :)
I'd use the tip of the tweezers or a small blade screwdriver to go into the
gap between the stud and cock. Then just carefully twist the tool to lever the
stud off there. That whole thing works a bit like a circlip, but in reverse.
Instead of taking the circlip off, you're taking off the what the circlip goes
onto.
Going back in, it should just push form the side and snap in, then rehook the
hairspring between the regulator pins. Check hairspring for flatness and
presto. Job done.
One thing to note: Once or twice, the actual stud holder came off, before the
stud itself. Don't panic, just put the the whole thing down and slide the stud
holder clear from the balance cock, then remove the stud from the holder when
all is safe and flat on the bench.
If you're brave, you may get away with not removing the stud at all, just pop
the stud holder ring off the balance cock. However, this is more dangerous as
the hairspring will always be attached and often putting the stud
holder/regulator ring back together onto the cock can be a pig of a job, so
having the balance hanging about there just adds to your problems.
It's a good thing(if you haven't got one yet) to make a balance cock holder.
I'm going on a limb here, but i reckon every watchmaker would have a coin(say
20-25mmm diam) with a long tapered pin in the middle of it.
Get a coin or flat piece of metal and a brass pin about 3mm diameter and taper
a 30-40mm length of the pin evenly to a sharp point. Make it smooth-ish and
cut off to size. Drill a 2.5mm hole in the coin and ream it to about 2.8 or
so. Push the pin through and hammer it flush. You can reinforce on the other
side with a bit of solder if needed, but it should be tight enough.
Then you can put the balance cock on this pin via the screw hole and have both
your hands available for this type of finicky work. It also allows the balance
to drop away from the cock, so chances of damage to the hairspring is reduced.
That said, when you remove the stud, the balance should not be free floating,
it should be hanging down, but propped up by placing a bit of Rodico under it.
You do not want the balance weight on the hairspring when the stud holder
comes off.
Phew. Sorry, i'll keep it short next time. :)

ABC

[Frank Adam]

Post by ABC
OK. I fixed it.
Bought a complete balance from a watch scrap yard. Used the balance
cock to practise a little. Removed the regulator from the "real" watch
and I put the incabloc spring back in.
I think the most difficult step is the removal of the stud. I almost
damaged the practice piece. I will figure out a tool some time......
One thing I have learned. It is much safer and more efficient to use a
flat tip tweezer to hold the lyre shape spring--by grabbing both
prongs of the open end. It won't fly away.

Yep.. well it still can, but that usually only happens when you don't have a
spare one handy and the job is due tomorrow.. :)