Got new Hamilton Khaki field auto -- a couple questions...

[Watch-O-Matic]

Eveyone,

Recently I bought my first automatic watch, a new Hamilton Khaki
Field Automatic, model H70455643.

For a good summary description of this watch, refer to
http://www.princetonwatches.com/shop/H70455643.asp

It uses the basic ETA-2824 movement.

I've intended for a couple years to buy an inexpensive automatic as
my "learning" model. I plan to move up for my next watch, maybe in a
few months to a year. (Have my eye on a Limes with the better
ETA-2824 movement, such as the "1924" model.)

This is the first mechanical watch I've owned since the early 70's
when I had a cheapie Waltham (a dime-store grade model shamelessly
using the Waltham name, so I've learned.)

Anyway, the Hamilton appears to be keeping quite good time. By
comparing the time to the NIST time clock on shortwave, it is
currently running fast at a rate about 3 seconds/day when on my wrist,
and about 8 seconds/day when off my wrist laying on its back at
nighttime.

(Is it normal for this movement to run faster when laying on the
dresser?)

From my research into automatics, I've heard that there usually is a
break-in period of a few months. How long should I go before getting
it adjusted (should it need it)?

And for this movement, when broken in, what is considered "normal" or
"reasonable" for accuracy when properly maintained and adjusted?

Thanks!

WOM

[Beau G.]

Post by Watch-O-Matic
Eveyone,
Recently I bought my first automatic watch, a new Hamilton Khaki
Field Automatic, model H70455643.
For a good summary description of this watch, refer tohttp://www.princetonwatches.com/shop/H70455643.asp
It uses the basic ETA-2824 movement.
I've intended for a couple years to buy an inexpensive automatic as
my "learning" model. I plan to move up for my next watch, maybe in a
few months to a year. (Have my eye on a Limes with the better
ETA-2824 movement, such as the "1924" model.)
This is the first mechanical watch I've owned since the early 70's
when I had a cheapie Waltham (a dime-store grade model shamelessly
using the Waltham name, so I've learned.)
Anyway, the Hamilton appears to be keeping quite good time. By
comparing the time to the NIST time clock on shortwave, it is
currently running fast at a rate about 3 seconds/day when on my wrist,
and about 8 seconds/day when off my wrist laying on its back at
nighttime.
(Is it normal for this movement to run faster when laying on the
dresser?)
From my research into automatics, I've heard that there usually is a
break-in period of a few months. How long should I go before getting
it adjusted (should it need it)?
And for this movement, when broken in, what is considered "normal" or
"reasonable" for accuracy when properly maintained and adjusted?
Thanks!
WOM

Hey WOM (great name!)
Sounds like that movement is doing just what it ought to. You might
try changing up the resting position to get a better feel for how it
loses/gains. Errors tend to average out whilst the watch is on your
wrist whereas they are more pronounced when the watch is in one
position only.
Doesn't sound like it needs adjustment yet. Most people recommend a
several month "breakin" before any adjustments are attempted. You'll
never
You might search the group archives for this movement. There are many
many postings on this great movement.
Lottsa luck.

Beau G.

[Watch-O-Matic]

Everyone,

As noted in a prior posting here, I've osbserved my new Hamilton Khaki
Field automatic is running faster at night while sitting at rest on
the dresser than when on my wrist during the day.

I've tried to determine which resting position results in the faster
time gain, and so far the results are inconclusive since it seems all
positions are faster than when the watch is on the wrist. (But it
does seem that when I put the watch face down it runs the fastest
-- I need to be a little more scientific in this, but I've not yet
found a resting position which slows the movement down compared to
wearing the watch on the wrist.)

Is this expected for a new watch using the basic ETA 2824 movement?

Also, overall the watch does seem to be running faster than when I got
it new a couple weeks ago. Is this because the movement is starting to
break-in and so internal resistance is dropping?

Comments from the watch experts out here on the various factors (e.g.,
position, at rest or on wrist, etc.) that govern movement time
keeping, including watch break-in, are most appreciated!

Thanks for all the great advice I've read on 'alt.horology' over
many months.

WOM

[Jack Denver]

Watches are a little counter-intuitive in that things that add friction to
the balance system make the watch speed up and less friction means the watch
slows down. The key element is the amplitude of the balance (how far it
swings each time). When friction is reduced the balance swings farther and
it takes more time to complete each trip, so the watch ticks more slowly.

Amplitude is higher in the horizontal positions because there is less
friction when the balance is riding on the pointy tip of its pivots than
when it is vertical and the sides of the pivots have a greater contact area.
Also contributing is state of wind -when the watch is fully wound up
amplitude is higher because the balance gets a bigger kick. And as the watch
breaks in friction is reduced, so again the watch should slow down, not
speed up.

At least this is the theory. In real life there are other contributing
factors which may mean that things go the other way.

My suggeston would be to wait a couple of months, adopt a consistent night
storage position and take note of the daily error. Then take the watch to a
watchmaker and have him trim off the # of seconds that you note, regardless
of the rate showing on his timing machine -whatever rate is showing, have
him add/remove the # of seconds that you indicate. Or you can do this
yourself if you are adventurous and the error is within the limit of the
fine regulator. The Eta fine regulator is relatively easy to adjust with
each tick mark representing around 5 seconds of trim. But don't do this if
you are not confident working inside a tiny machine - a slip of the
screwdriver can foul the hairspring and cause a lot of damage.

Post by Watch-O-Matic
Everyone,
As noted in a prior posting here, I've osbserved my new Hamilton Khaki
Field automatic is running faster at night while sitting at rest on
the dresser than when on my wrist during the day.
I've tried to determine which resting position results in the faster
time gain, and so far the results are inconclusive since it seems all
positions are faster than when the watch is on the wrist. (But it
does seem that when I put the watch face down it runs the fastest
-- I need to be a little more scientific in this, but I've not yet
found a resting position which slows the movement down compared to
wearing the watch on the wrist.)
Is this expected for a new watch using the basic ETA 2824 movement?
Also, overall the watch does seem to be running faster than when I got
it new a couple weeks ago. Is this because the movement is starting to
break-in and so internal resistance is dropping?
Comments from the watch experts out here on the various factors (e.g.,
position, at rest or on wrist, etc.) that govern movement time
keeping, including watch break-in, are most appreciated!
Thanks for all the great advice I've read on 'alt.horology' over
many months.
WOM

[Watch-O-Matic]

Post by Jack Denver
Watches are a little counter-intuitive in that things that add
friction to the balance system make the watch speed up and less
friction means the watch slows down.

Interesting!

Post by Jack Denver
The key element is the amplitude of the balance (how far it swings
each time). When friction is reduced the balance swings farther and
it takes more time to complete each trip, so the watch ticks more slowly.

Well, this makes sense.

Post by Jack Denver
Amplitude is higher in the horizontal positions because there is
less friction when the balance is riding on the pointy tip of its
pivots than when it is vertical and the sides of the pivots have a
greater contact area. Also contributing is state of wind -when the
watch is fully wound up amplitude is higher because the balance gets
a bigger kick. And as the watch breaks in friction is reduced, so
again the watch should slow down, not speed up.

Interesting. I would assume one factor, then, why my watch is slower
while wearing on my wrist is because it is on average more wound up.
At night, the watch begins to wind down and thus speed up. Am I
correctly interpreting what you said?

Post by Jack Denver
At least this is the theory. In real life there are other
contributing factors which may mean that things go the other way.

I assume vibration due to wearing plays a role, as does temperature
variation?

Am I right that with vibration the average friction of the balance
goes down and thus the watch slows down?

Post by Jack Denver
My suggeston would be to wait a couple of months, adopt a consistent
night storage position and take note of the daily error. Then take
the watch to a watchmaker and have him trim off the # of seconds
that you note, regardless of the rate showing on his timing machine
-whatever rate is showing, have him add/remove the # of seconds that
you indicate. Or you can do this yourself if you are adventurous
and the error is within the limit of the fine regulator. The Eta
fine regulator is relatively easy to adjust with each tick mark
representing around 5 seconds of trim. But don't do this if you are
not confident working inside a tiny machine - a slip of the
screwdriver can foul the hairspring and cause a lot of damage.

First, is there a preferred position to store the watch at night? For
example, to place the watch on its back with the dial pointing up?
I've seen no guidance here -- does it matter?

Second, I am interested in adjusting the timing myself. But if I do
this myself then I won't be able to test it for sealing. Is it usually
the case that when the back is removed and then put back on that the
watch will seal properly? Or is this a hit or miss thing? (That is, a
significant percentage of putting the back on leads to improper
sealing?)

Again, thanks. Very informative.

WOM