Identifying old Pocket Watch

Discussion:

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d***@gmail.com

2009-03-14 15:54:28 UTC

Hi folks. I just got my great-grandfather's pocket watch serviced
lately to put it back in working order and I was wondering if anyone
could point me in a direction to find out if anyone can help identify
the watch. The fellow who worked on it said there were no markings
inside to help so I am not sure if just photos of the exterior will do
anything. Thanks in advance!

j.f.

2009-03-14 16:21:40 UTC

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In article

Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi folks. I just got my great-grandfather's pocket watch serviced
lately to put it back in working order and I was wondering if anyone
could point me in a direction to find out if anyone can help identify
the watch. The fellow who worked on it said there were no markings
inside to help so I am not sure if just photos of the exterior will do
anything. Thanks in advance!

Photos (the more, the closer, the better) of:

The dial and hands
Inside the case back
The plate/bridges of the movement (what you see if you open the back)

And very important, the diameters of the dial and plate in millimeters.

Also if it is key-wound or pendant wound; key set, pendant set, or lever
set

There are plenty of free photo hosting sites where you can post the
photos, and then post the URL here. Picassaweb, Photobucket, and Flickr
among them.

d***@gmail.com

2009-03-14 16:38:13 UTC

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Post by j.f.
In article

The dial and hands
Inside the case back
The plate/bridges of the movement (what you see if you open the back)

I took a few photos and you can see them here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/***@N02/

I don't really feel comfortable removing any more of the back of the
watch! Perhaps I can bring it down to the watch fellow and take some
photos there if I need to get more.

Post by j.f.
And very important, the diameters of the dial and plate in millimeters.

I am guessing the dial is the face of the watch, but I am not sure
what the plate is. Is that the body of the watch?

Post by j.f.
Also if it is key-wound or pendant wound; key set, pendant set, or lever
set

The winder, as you can see from the photos, is on the top of he
watch. Would this be called pendant set? I am not familiar with all
the terms sorry!

I did a search for the type of watch as it is printed on the face -
'J.G. Graves Sheffield - and found some information on he fellow J.G.
Graves anyway. I didn't see any watches that looked exactly like this
one though.

j.f.

2009-03-15 02:59:27 UTC

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In article

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by j.f.
In article

The dial and hands
Inside the case back
The plate/bridges of the movement (what you see if you open the back)

I don't really feel comfortable removing any more of the back of the
watch! Perhaps I can bring it down to the watch fellow and take some
photos there if I need to get more.

Post by j.f.
And very important, the diameters of the dial and plate in millimeters.

I am guessing the dial is the face of the watch, but I am not sure
what the plate is. Is that the body of the watch?

Post by j.f.
Also if it is key-wound or pendant wound; key set, pendant set, or lever
set

The winder, as you can see from the photos, is on the top of he
watch. Would this be called pendant set? I am not familiar with all
the terms sorry!
I did a search for the type of watch as it is printed on the face -
'J.G. Graves Sheffield - and found some information on he fellow J.G.
Graves anyway. I didn't see any watches that looked exactly like this
one though.

Case Markings:
Anchor: Birmingham Assay Office
Lion: Sterling Silver
Date Letter "F": 1854
Case maker: E.W.C. Co. ["E___" Watch Case Company?]

Movement: Swiss Import

Jeweler (Name on dial): J. G. Graves, Sheffield, England, well respected
firm selling silverware and pocket watches.

Common for English watches to have an imported movement, an English
case, and the jeweler's name on the dial.

Everyone was a beginner once. Net time you're in a bookstore look at
"The Complete Price Guide To Watches" by Gilbert, Engle, and Shugart.
Except for the prices, which are unreliable, it has a wealth of
information and descriptive terminology.

Enjoy your watch.

d***@gmail.com

2009-03-15 14:18:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by j.f.
In article

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by j.f.
In article

The dial and hands
Inside the case back
The plate/bridges of the movement (what you see if you open the back)

I don't really feel comfortable removing any more of the back of the
watch! Perhaps I can bring it down to the watch fellow and take some
photos there if I need to get more.

Post by j.f.
And very important, the diameters of the dial and plate in millimeters.

I am guessing the dial is the face of the watch, but I am not sure
what the plate is. Is that the body of the watch?

Post by j.f.
Also if it is key-wound or pendant wound; key set, pendant set, or lever
set

The winder, as you can see from the photos, is on the top of he
watch. Would this be called pendant set? I am not familiar with all
the terms sorry!
I did a search for the type of watch as it is printed on the face -
'J.G. Graves Sheffield - and found some information on he fellow J.G.
Graves anyway. I didn't see any watches that looked exactly like this
one though.

Anchor: Birmingham Assay Office
Lion: Sterling Silver
Date Letter "F": 1854
Case maker: E.W.C. Co. ["E___" Watch Case Company?]
Movement: Swiss Import
Jeweler (Name on dial): J. G. Graves, Sheffield, England, well respected
firm selling silverware and pocket watches.
Common for English watches to have an imported movement, an English
case, and the jeweler's name on the dial.
Everyone was a beginner once. Net time you're in a bookstore look at
"The Complete Price Guide To Watches" by Gilbert, Engle, and Shugart.
Except for the prices, which are unreliable, it has a wealth of
information and descriptive terminology.
Enjoy your watch.

That's excellent information j.f.! I appreciate the response. I
would never have figured out 1854 from an 'F' on the case. I will
have to check out that book as a friend of mine also has an old watch
that belongs to his father.

The sound of this watch ticking is great. I am glad I got it fixed up
and put back in working order. I am going to get a desk stand for it
and use it as a desk clock as I don't see carrying a pocket watch as
being all that practical :)

Steve R.

2009-03-15 00:32:16 UTC

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J.G. Graves made watches until the end of the 19th century. I used to own
two keywind watches made by them. Look under the balance cock/bridge. If
there is a decimalised number there, it's a Longenes movement. Other brands
may be harder to identify.

Steve R.

Ian Partridge

2009-03-19 01:18:55 UTC

Permalink

"Steve R." wrote: > J.G. Graves made watches until the end of the 19th
century. I used to own

Post by Steve R.
two keywind watches made by them. Look under the balance cock/bridge. If
there is a decimalised number there, it's a Longenes movement. Other
brands may be harder to identify.

Coincidentally I saw one today that reminded me that the Graves going barrel
pocket watches I have seen were "The Express English Lever" and "J.G Graves,
Sheffield" on the dial. I believe the 'Express' was intended as railway
(railroad) watch.

Ian

.

Ian Partridge

2009-03-15 23:13:54 UTC

Permalink

Your pocket watch is a late one - the Birmingham date letter 'F' is for
1930. (Note the two cusp shapes of the halmark bottom).

Your great grandfather bought a new watch not an 1854 antique one? This
ties in with the pendant hand settting and winding, Swiss export number, and
'Swiss Made' fired on the enamel dial. Imported items into the United States
had to have country of origin markings on them by law. The protectionist
McKinley Tariff Act of 1890 was amended in 1921 so U.S. imports then had to
have 'Made in....'

The hands on your watch would suit a demi-hunter case as the minute hand has
a thin waist where the small outer dial would show.

J.G. Graves, I believe, did make English lever pocket watches in the 19th
century. They had an interesting feature of an extra barrel wheel between
the plates of the keywind watches to mimic fusee (anti-clockwise) winding.
This was to appease customers who wound their new going-barrel watches the
'old' way and broke them!

Ian

.

d***@gmail.com

2009-03-16 00:04:21 UTC

Permalink

Post by Ian Partridge
Your pocket watch is a late one - the Birmingham date letter 'F' is for
1930. (Note the two cusp shapes of the halmark bottom).

Yes I found the stamp information online and noticed that shape on the
bottom which suggested 1930 to me as well.

Post by Ian Partridge
Your great grandfather bought a new watch not an 1854 antique one? This
ties in with the pendant hand settting and winding, Swiss export number, and
'Swiss Made' fired on the enamel dial. Imported items into the United States
had to have country of origin markings on them by law. The protectionist
McKinley Tariff Act of 1890 was amended in 1921 so U.S. imports then had to
have 'Made in....'

I have no idea how the watch came in to my great-grandfather's hands.
He lived in Ireland and so I am guessing the watch came from there.

Post by Ian Partridge
The hands on your watch would suit a demi-hunter case as the minute hand has
a thin waist where the small outer dial would show.

Interesting - I just google'd "demi-hunter case" as I had never heard
of that before. A nice way to protect the watch!

Post by Ian Partridge
J.G. Graves, I believe, did make English lever pocket watches in the 19th
century. They had an interesting feature of an extra barrel wheel between
the plates of the keywind watches to mimic fusee (anti-clockwise) winding.
This was to appease customers who wound their new going-barrel watches the
'old' way and broke them!

Thanks for the additional information, Ian!

Dave . . .

Moka Java

2009-03-16 02:15:58 UTC

Permalink

Post by Ian Partridge

Your pocket watch is a late one - the Birmingham date letter 'F' is for
1930. (Note the two cusp shapes of the halmark bottom).
Your great grandfather bought a new watch not an 1854 antique one? This
ties in with the pendant hand settting and winding, Swiss export number, and
'Swiss Made' fired on the enamel dial. Imported items into the United States
had to have country of origin markings on them by law. The protectionist
McKinley Tariff Act of 1890 was amended in 1921 so U.S. imports then had to
have 'Made in....'
The hands on your watch would suit a demi-hunter case as the minute hand has
a thin waist where the small outer dial would show.
J.G. Graves, I believe, did make English lever pocket watches in the 19th
century. They had an interesting feature of an extra barrel wheel between
the plates of the keywind watches to mimic fusee (anti-clockwise) winding.
This was to appease customers who wound their new going-barrel watches the
'old' way and broke them!
Ian

"Swiss Made" on the dial is a dead give away as to age or lack of it.
Stem wind was pretty rare in 1854 too. The hands don't match, one or
both are replacements.

h***@gmail.com

2019-01-15 02:20:44 UTC

Permalink

I had the same problem, I eventually found, JG stamped at the back of my clock's face/dial and then I could compare pictures with those online already. The only other marking I found was the nr 20... And then the silver hallmarks.. There are no writing or logo on my clock's dial either..