Zenith cal. 143?

Post by Nate Nagel
Found an old chronograph for sale that I find appealing, but I know
nothing about them. Movement is marked "143" with no suffix. Any
pointers re: authenticity, etc.? Watch is expensive enough I don't want
to make a mistake. Is this a decent movement, or pass?
thanks
nate

this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-Zenith-Chronograph-two-registers-black-dial-/350447923001?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item519852ef39

there is a reference in one of my books to a cal.143, no picture, I
would say it is a Zenith by the look, thing that concerns me is the rust
on the steel parts that I can see

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=793952&ppid=1122&image=457533382&images=457533012,457533090,457532948,457533144,457533229,457533282,457533382,457533485,457533569&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

no telling what it looks like under the dial or the wheel train, these
cases are barely dust resistance, certainly not water resistant so rust
is fairly common on these watches, to do this properly the movement
would have to striped completely, some of the screws replaced no a
simple job because some screws are normal, some with steps or shoulders
to hold components down and allow them to move, some are eccentric for
adjustments, the levers and springs will have to derusted, then
refinished, graining polished etc, cost of a service like that would
cost as much as they are currently asking for it, if you don't have a
service done the rust will get worst over time.

personally unless this is particularly rare piece I would run not walk
away from this

dAz

Frank Adam

2011-03-20 09:05:29 UTC

this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-Zenith-Chronograph-two-registers-black-dial-/350447923001?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item519852ef39
there is a reference in one of my books to a cal.143, no picture, I
would say it is a Zenith by the look, thing that concerns me is the rust
on the steel parts that I can see
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=793952&ppid=1122&image=457533382&images=457533012,457533090,457532948,457533144,457533229,457533282,457533382,457533485,457533569&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0
no telling what it looks like under the dial or the wheel train, these
cases are barely dust resistance, certainly not water resistant so rust
is fairly common on these watches, to do this properly the movement
would have to striped completely, some of the screws replaced no a
simple job because some screws are normal, some with steps or shoulders
to hold components down and allow them to move, some are eccentric for
adjustments, the levers and springs will have to derusted, then
refinished, graining polished etc, cost of a service like that would
cost as much as they are currently asking for it, if you don't have a
service done the rust will get worst over time.
personally unless this is particularly rare piece I would run not walk
away from this

Agree. I don't know if it's just the picture, but below the balance
and a couple of other spots there are even green spots, which may
indicate acidic or sea water reacting with the mainplate. That will
likely never be completely cured.
I'd say sprint, not run.

--
Regards, Frank

Nate Nagel

2011-03-20 13:03:07 UTC

Post by Frank Adam

this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-Zenith-Chronograph-two-registers-black-dial-/350447923001?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item519852ef39
there is a reference in one of my books to a cal.143, no picture, I
would say it is a Zenith by the look, thing that concerns me is the rust
on the steel parts that I can see
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=793952&ppid=1122&image=457533382&images=457533012,457533090,457532948,457533144,457533229,457533282,457533382,457533485,457533569&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0
no telling what it looks like under the dial or the wheel train, these
cases are barely dust resistance, certainly not water resistant so rust
is fairly common on these watches, to do this properly the movement
would have to striped completely, some of the screws replaced no a
simple job because some screws are normal, some with steps or shoulders
to hold components down and allow them to move, some are eccentric for
adjustments, the levers and springs will have to derusted, then
refinished, graining polished etc, cost of a service like that would
cost as much as they are currently asking for it, if you don't have a
service done the rust will get worst over time.
personally unless this is particularly rare piece I would run not walk
away from this

OK, point taken... I just really liked the look and styling of the
watch but had the same concerns, honestly. At least one person seems to
have thought it was worth the asking price, however, and has bid on it,
pretty much removing all temptation for me because it's on the very high
end of my price range anyway.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

dAz

2011-03-20 14:04:35 UTC

OK, point taken... I just really liked the look and styling of the watch
but had the same concerns, honestly. At least one person seems to have
thought it was worth the asking price, however, and has bid on it,
pretty much removing all temptation for me because it's on the very high
end of my price range anyway.

like anything the better condition they are in the easier it is to look
after it, that zenith has had a rough life, this is not a zenith, but it
is a similar vintage, now look at the condition of the movement

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-VENUS-170-Starina-Stainless-Steel-Chronograph-/300536317627?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f95c46bb

Nate Nagel

2011-03-20 14:58:00 UTC

OK, point taken... I just really liked the look and styling of the watch
but had the same concerns, honestly. At least one person seems to have
thought it was worth the asking price, however, and has bid on it,
pretty much removing all temptation for me because it's on the very high
end of my price range anyway.

like anything the better condition they are in the easier it is to look
after it, that zenith has had a rough life, this is not a zenith, but it
is a similar vintage, now look at the condition of the movement
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-VENUS-170-Starina-Stainless-Steel-Chronograph-/300536317627?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f95c46bb

you shouldn't have shown me that, I quite like that one as well.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel

2011-03-20 15:36:46 UTC

OK, point taken... I just really liked the look and styling of the watch
but had the same concerns, honestly. At least one person seems to have
thought it was worth the asking price, however, and has bid on it,
pretty much removing all temptation for me because it's on the very high
end of my price range anyway.

like anything the better condition they are in the easier it is to look
after it, that zenith has had a rough life, this is not a zenith, but it
is a similar vintage, now look at the condition of the movement
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-VENUS-170-Starina-Stainless-Steel-Chronograph-/300536317627?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f95c46bb

you shouldn't have shown me that, I quite like that one as well.
nate

I'm also now tempted by this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270721738293

although it looks like one of the sub dial hands may have been replaced?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Frank Adam

2011-03-20 23:09:05 UTC

OK, point taken... I just really liked the look and styling of the watch
but had the same concerns, honestly. At least one person seems to have
thought it was worth the asking price, however, and has bid on it,
pretty much removing all temptation for me because it's on the very high
end of my price range anyway.

like anything the better condition they are in the easier it is to look
after it, that zenith has had a rough life, this is not a zenith, but it
is a similar vintage, now look at the condition of the movement
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-VENUS-170-Starina-Stainless-Steel-Chronograph-/300536317627?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f95c46bb

you shouldn't have shown me that, I quite like that one as well.
nate

I'm also now tempted by this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270721738293
although it looks like one of the sub dial hands may have been replaced?

The style of the hand seems ok. Some did use two types of hands back
then. The right side sub is the minute recorder amd they're just
making it easier to differentiate between that dial and the real
seconds one on the left.
Qustion is, bad lighting or black hand ? I think it's just a bad
photo, but it should be a blued steel hand there. Even if it is black
that won't cost much to correct.

--
Regards, Frank

dAz

2011-03-20 23:28:08 UTC

Post by Frank Adam

OK, point taken... I just really liked the look and styling of the watch
but had the same concerns, honestly. At least one person seems to have
thought it was worth the asking price, however, and has bid on it,
pretty much removing all temptation for me because it's on the very high
end of my price range anyway.

like anything the better condition they are in the easier it is to look
after it, that zenith has had a rough life, this is not a zenith, but it
is a similar vintage, now look at the condition of the movement
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-VENUS-170-Starina-Stainless-Steel-Chronograph-/300536317627?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f95c46bb

you shouldn't have shown me that, I quite like that one as well.
nate

I'm also now tempted by this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270721738293
although it looks like one of the sub dial hands may have been replaced?

angle of the light, this watch looks pretty straight and original and in
good condition, don't think it's seen much use.

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=557920&ppid=1122&image=457937083&images=457937063,457937083,457937098,457937104,457345555,457345587&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

dAz

2011-03-20 23:13:55 UTC

Post by Nate Nagel
I'm also now tempted by this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270721738293
although it looks like one of the sub dial hands may have been replaced?

now that is a nice watch, not as old as the others but still be 1950s,
one of the reasons it's in such good condition is the case, the earlier
chronos cases are as I said barely dustproof let alone water resistant,
those rectangular pushers used are just a block of metal attached to the
end of a flat spring that is curved inside the case to come out in a
slot in the case, no gaskets, press on back again no gaskets.

this case is a water resistant type, the crown pushers and back all have
gaskets, this goes a long way in protecting the movement.

now I am not saying you can wear this watch in the water, the case is
good enough to shrug of rain water and sweat but will not pass any sort
of pressure test.

nice watch, shock resistant too thanks to the incabloc

as to the hands, that is quite normal, this is so you can see the
difference in the minute recorder hand on the right to the sub seconds
hand on the left, in normal use the chronograph is not left running all
the time, it can put extra load on the time train and affect the
timekeeping over long period, thats why you have the extra little
seconds hand.

the exceptions are the Seiko auto chronos and the Lemainia 5100 which
use a clutch system on the chronograph and can be left running all the time.

even on quartz analogue chronograph you don't leave the chrono running
24/7, most use extra motor to drive each hand, and leaving the chrono
running like that can cut the battery life from 2 years to 6 months as a
couple my customers used to come an have a whinge about that.

dAz

N8N

2011-03-25 11:47:09 UTC

Post by Nate Nagel
I'm also now tempted by this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270721738293
although it looks like one of the sub dial hands may have been replaced?

now that is a nice watch, not as old as the others but still be 1950s,
one of the reasons it's in such good condition is the case, the earlier
chronos cases are as I said barely dustproof let alone water resistant,
those rectangular pushers used are just a block of metal attached to the
end of a flat spring that is curved inside the case to come out in a
slot in the case, no gaskets, press on back again no gaskets.
this case is a water resistant type, the crown pushers and back all have
gaskets, this goes a long way in protecting the movement.
now I am not saying you can wear this watch in the water, the case is
good enough to shrug of rain water and sweat but will not pass any sort
of pressure test.
nice watch, shock resistant too thanks to the incabloc
as to the hands, that is quite normal, this is so you can see the
difference in the minute recorder hand on the right to the sub seconds
hand on the left, in normal use the chronograph is not left running all
the time, it can put extra load on the time train and affect the
timekeeping over long period, thats why you have the extra little
seconds hand.
the exceptions are the Seiko auto chronos and the Lemainia 5100 which
use a clutch system on the chronograph and can be left running all the time.
even on quartz analogue chronograph you don't leave the chrono running
24/7, most use extra motor to drive each hand, and leaving the chrono
running like that can cut the battery life from 2 years to 6 months as a
couple my customers used to come an have a whinge about that.
dAz

well that one ended too rich for my blood by far... so someone else
must have agreed with us :)

But I did pick up a Seiko 5 to keep time until I can get all my other
ones fixed (every single one has something minor wrong with it - one
is being serviced; one needs a service, one needs a new crystal... so
having a relatively inexpensive modern watch is probably practical) I
actually quite like it but have only been wearing it since Monday so
no sense even trying to assess how well it's running (I think it's
running slightly fast, but I've been told to let them "break in" for a
while before worrying about it.)

nate

Nate Nagel

2011-03-20 15:02:55 UTC

OK, point taken... I just really liked the look and styling of the watch
but had the same concerns, honestly. At least one person seems to have
thought it was worth the asking price, however, and has bid on it,
pretty much removing all temptation for me because it's on the very high
end of my price range anyway.

like anything the better condition they are in the easier it is to look
after it, that zenith has had a rough life, this is not a zenith, but it
is a similar vintage, now look at the condition of the movement
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-VENUS-170-Starina-Stainless-Steel-Chronograph-/300536317627?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f95c46bb

question: I understand *most* of the functions/indications on that
watch, but what is the red scale on the main dial? It's marked only
"mile" and I'm not really sure what its purpose would be.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

d530

2011-03-20 15:16:47 UTC

Post by Nate Nagel
question: I understand *most* of the functions/indications on that
watch, but what is the red scale on the main dial? It's marked only
"mile" and I'm not really sure what its purpose would be.
nate

that's telemeter scale:

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/telemeter_chronograph.htm

Nate Nagel

2011-03-20 15:24:13 UTC

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/telemeter_chronograph.htm

Ah, thanks... that explains why it's not particularly aligned with any
of the other marks, then. Kind of cool, but not something I could see
myself using (the tachymeter, on the other hand, I could... but now that
my GPS has a speedometer even that is kind of anachronistic)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Frank Adam

2011-03-20 23:05:55 UTC

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/telemeter_chronograph.htm

Ahem, my GPS has the time too.. what are you buying a watch for ? ;-)

--
Regards, Frank

N8N

2011-03-21 14:04:12 UTC

Post by Frank Adam

question: I understand *most* of the functions/indications on that
watch, but what is the red scale on the main dial? It's marked only
"mile" and I'm not really sure what its purpose would be.
nate

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/telemeter_chronograph.htm

Ahem, my GPS has the time too.. what are you buying a watch for ? ;-)

Sometimes I want to know what time it is when I'm *not* in my car...

that, and I've been wearing one for so long (I'm old enough to
remember not having a cell phone) that I just feel nekkid without it.

nate

dAz

2011-03-20 23:21:08 UTC

question: I understand *most* of the functions/indications on that
watch, but what is the red scale on the main dial? It's marked only
"mile" and I'm not really sure what its purpose would be.
nate

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/telemeter_chronograph.htm

the original purpose is to tell how far away the enemy guns are, the
observer would see the muzzle flash of the cannons start the chrono, and
stop it when he hears the sound

dAz

2011-03-21 00:34:18 UTC