Discussion:
Making up watches to order
(too old to reply)
Mark South
2005-01-23 13:05:45 UTC
Permalink
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.

What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.

My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).

This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Hans Uwland
2005-01-23 15:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there
are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They
can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We
could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It
could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at
least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as
curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up
a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer
that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the
same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship
competitions :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Although I would prefer a handwound over an automatic watch,
I like the idea and would gladly participate. Please keep me
informed!

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Hans Uwland
Bo Williams
2005-01-23 16:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Although I would prefer a handwound over an automatic watch, I like the
idea and would gladly participate. Please keep me informed!
I like the idea too and would participate--but I'm rather skeptical that
as many as 100 alt.horology denizens would play.
--
Bo Williams - ***@hiwaay.net
http://hiwaay.net/~williams/
Mark South
2005-01-23 19:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bo Williams
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
Although I would prefer a handwound over an automatic watch, I like the
idea and would gladly participate. Please keep me informed!
Just keep reading here and you'll know as much as the rest of us :-)
Post by Bo Williams
I like the idea too and would participate--but I'm rather skeptical that
as many as 100 alt.horology denizens would play.
Well, I have no idea of how many people are out there, and the idea was a
playful one to start with, but - who knows? - it could be fun.

I might contact a manufacturer or two with some questions if there is any
more interest.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Salmonella
2005-01-23 22:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Count me in, if it's a reasonable price, say no more* than $150 net. If
properly done, with carefully selected movement, etc, this could be an item
that appreciates over the years--have it marked 1/100 on the back. See what
you could get from Werner's, with a guarantee of exclusivity. It might
become an annual thing.

Salmonella
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Although I would prefer a handwound over an automatic watch, I like the
idea and would gladly participate. Please keep me informed!
--
met vriendelijke groet,
Hans Uwland
*Say no more. Wink wink. Nudge nudge.
the swisswatchguy
2005-01-23 23:14:37 UTC
Permalink
This is a good idea. I just doubt that there are at least 100
participants here and knowing the costs of movements and habillement,
whether you shall be able to work out a net price for them
approximating their expectations with a Swiss made quality hand- or
automatic watch. You can count upon my assistance if you need or want
it.

I hope that you have not had any problems riding your bicycle in Geneva
with all the snow, which we have gotten lately.
Mark South
2005-01-23 23:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by the swisswatchguy
This is a good idea. I just doubt that there are at least 100
participants here and knowing the costs of movements and habillement,
whether you shall be able to work out a net price for them
approximating their expectations with a Swiss made quality hand- or
automatic watch.
I too, have no idea, but I'll try to find out more.
Post by the swisswatchguy
You can count upon my assistance if you need or want
it.
Thanks, that's generous of you.
Post by the swisswatchguy
I hope that you have not had any problems riding your bicycle in Geneva
with all the snow, which we have gotten lately.
We had enough here to make a lot of snowmen today, but for the bike that
just means a cleaning/tuning day :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Revision
2005-01-27 21:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Yes I also would concur....this model (Precista) is available in HW or
auto.

http://www.watcharama.com/prs53.htm

CWC was my first idea. Similar in style and affordable, but alas,
quartz.
Post by Hans Uwland
Although I would prefer a handwound over an automatic watch,
I like the idea and would gladly participate. Please keep me
informed!
Brian Talley
2005-01-24 21:10:05 UTC
Permalink
I think I like this idea. It could be the Linux of the horological
world. :-) Well, sort of.

Depending on style and price, I may be very interested.
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
Frank Adam
2005-01-24 21:37:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:10:05 GMT, Brian Talley
<***@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

God no. We'll have to spend ages to learn how to set the time ? ;-p
Post by Brian Talley
I think I like this idea. It could be the Linux of the horological
world. :-) Well, sort of.
Depending on style and price, I may be very interested.
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
--
Regards, Frank
Honest John
2005-01-24 22:49:46 UTC
Permalink
"Brian Talley" <***@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message news:NudJd.37922

" I may be very interested."

Design it with a "beater auto" and name it the "Talley Whacker".
the swisswatchguy
2005-01-25 11:37:42 UTC
Permalink
With regards to the group's potential for a 100 pces special watch buy,
I have checked with the Group Directory: alt.horology is a medium
traffic only 10-100 registered members midget. I would consider that we
ought to have at least around 300-400 active members in order to
generate a final firm order of 100 pces.
l***@uk2.net
2005-01-25 19:25:34 UTC
Permalink
On 25 Jan 2005 03:37:42 -0800, "the swisswatchguy"
Post by the swisswatchguy
With regards to the group's potential for a 100 pces special watch buy,
I have checked with the Group Directory: alt.horology is a medium
traffic only 10-100 registered members midget. I would consider that we
ought to have at least around 300-400 active members in order to
generate a final firm order of 100 pces.
What's a 'Group Directory'? Usenet newsgroups don't have 'registered
members'. It's likely that there are far more people reading
alt.horology than posting to it.
the swisswatchguy
2005-01-25 19:50:52 UTC
Permalink
You can update your knowledge at:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.horology/about

You might though be right that some just read and never post:
therefore, may I suggest that you launch a poll of the absent voters:
as long as they do not participate, they cannot order the limited
edition alt.horology watch and miss their lifetime collectors' chance.
l***@uk2.net
2005-01-25 21:02:25 UTC
Permalink
On 25 Jan 2005 11:50:52 -0800, "the swisswatchguy"
Post by the swisswatchguy
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.horology/about
as long as they do not participate, they cannot order the limited
edition alt.horology watch and miss their lifetime collectors' chance.
Google is simply one method of accessing Usenet, it's not Usenet. As a
sweeping generalisation all newsgroups have far more readers than
writers. They're called 'lurkers'. There's no mechanism on Usenet for
polls. It's not the same as Yahoo or any of the other chatboard-type
groups.
Honest John
2005-01-25 23:07:47 UTC
Permalink
Start popping the popcorn.

Here it comes !
the swisswatchguy
2005-01-26 11:56:48 UTC
Permalink
The world is full of "no can do" teachers.

Actually I was asking you to use your deep knowledge of the system in
order to find a "can do" system and advertise & sell in due time our
alt.horology 100 pces limited edition.
Appreciating in advance your further positive thinking.
Ciao
Mark South
2005-01-26 14:50:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by the swisswatchguy
The world is full of "no can do" teachers.
Well, not quite full, but overpopulated....
Post by the swisswatchguy
Actually I was asking you to use your deep knowledge of the system in
order to find a "can do" system and advertise & sell in due time our
alt.horology 100 pces limited edition.
swisswatchguy, please do me (and a few others, I guess) a favour: keep
some context in your posts when you reply - not everybody sees the thread
in the same order as you do, and I can't always see without effort which
is the article to which you are replying.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
the swisswatchguy
2005-01-27 08:49:10 UTC
Permalink
swisswatchguy, please do me (and a few others, I guess) a favour: keep
some context in your posts when you reply - not everybody sees the
thread
in the same order as you do, and I can't always see without effort
which
is the article to which you are replying.

Sorry, I thought that it would be obvious, in writing in the field
which appears upon having clicked the reply button immediately
underneath of the text I want to reply to.

I'll try to do it better as from now. Appreciating your constructive
remark.
Tom Bennett
2005-01-26 14:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by the swisswatchguy
as long as they do not participate, they cannot order the limited
edition alt.horology watch and miss their lifetime collectors' chance.
I lurk, but really only to learn. If there's nothing I can contribute
then I don't post. On this one, however, I'd be very interested in a
limited edition alt.horology watch.

I don't suppose there's much I can do to help, but I'll be watching
developments with interest.

Tom
London, UK
Mark South
2005-01-26 14:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Bennett
Post by the swisswatchguy
as long as they do not participate, they cannot order the limited
edition alt.horology watch and miss their lifetime collectors' chance.
I lurk, but really only to learn. If there's nothing I can contribute
then I don't post. On this one, however, I'd be very interested in a
limited edition alt.horology watch.
Thanks Tom, I'm keeping count of who and how many expresses interest.
Post by Tom Bennett
I don't suppose there's much I can do to help, but I'll be watching
developments with interest.
There will be news as and when I find spare time for more research. Of
course, since I said I'd do this, real life has stepped in and accounted
for all my time for the next few weeks....
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Roger A. Cope
2005-01-26 15:22:29 UTC
Permalink
interested in a
Post by Tom Bennett
limited edition alt.horology watch.
of who and how many expresses interest."


I'm in. rac
Jim Bianchi
2005-01-27 02:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Bennett
interested in a
Post by Tom Bennett
limited edition alt.horology watch.
of who and how many expresses interest."
I'm in. rac
Count me in also.
--
***@sonic.net

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary, and those who don't."
Allan M. Due
2005-01-26 18:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Bennett
Post by the swisswatchguy
as long as they do not participate, they cannot order the limited
edition alt.horology watch and miss their lifetime collectors' chance.
I lurk, but really only to learn. If there's nothing I can contribute
then I don't post. On this one, however, I'd be very interested in a
limited edition alt.horology watch.
Another lurker with interest. The final design being the deciding factor of
course. :-)

AmD
--
My Sig is a P228
To contact me use: amd1, then the at sign, then xbarx, then obligatory
dot and then com; or just click here = http://xbarx.com/m/amd1
Brian Talley
2005-01-26 23:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan M. Due
Post by Tom Bennett
Post by the swisswatchguy
as long as they do not participate, they cannot order the limited
edition alt.horology watch and miss their lifetime collectors' chance.
I lurk, but really only to learn. If there's nothing I can contribute
then I don't post. On this one, however, I'd be very interested in a
limited edition alt.horology watch.
Another lurker with interest. The final design being the deciding factor of
course. :-)
AmD
Okay, is anyone keeping count?
Frank Adam
2005-01-27 00:39:24 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:41:02 GMT, Brian Talley
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Allan M. Due
Another lurker with interest. The final design being the deciding factor of
course. :-)
AmD
Okay, is anyone keeping count?
Geez, must be 8 or so.. only 92 more to go. ;-p
--
Regards, Frank
Mark South
2005-01-27 05:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Adam
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:41:02 GMT, Brian Talley
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Allan M. Due
Another lurker with interest. The final design being the deciding factor of
course. :-)
Okay, is anyone keeping count?
Yeah, Goooogle :-)
Post by Frank Adam
Geez, must be 8 or so.. only 92 more to go. ;-p
More interesting hypothetical question to consider is, what kind of design
would be appealing and exciting to the readership here? Discussing this
can start anytime, regardless of any harsh commercial realities.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
The Baron
2005-01-27 16:52:04 UTC
Permalink
I want three with alt.horology on the dial, but give me the MA movement for
accuracy.
Post by Brian Talley
Okay, is anyone keeping count?
Mark South
2005-01-27 16:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Baron
I want three with alt.horology on the dial, but give me the MA movement for
accuracy.
<aol>
LOL!
</aol>
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Squirrel
2005-01-27 23:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Hello all,

Here's another lurker coming forward to symbolically pledge my money.

I must admit that I, too, am a bit curious if 100 people can be found
(with money in hand, at that) to fund this project *plus* all agree on
a single design. Oh, and since I don't know any of you, I'm also
curious who will be collecting the $15,000+ stack of bills ;-) I'll
keep this post bookmarked and follow along just the same, though. If
it truly becomes feasible, I'm in.

All you lurkers out there better speak up while the iron's hot (to coin
a metaphor).

John
Jim Bianchi
2005-01-28 00:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Squirrel
All you lurkers out there better speak up while the iron's hot (to coin
a metaphor).
I'll cross that bridge when the milk spills..
--
***@sonic.net

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary, and those who don't."
Appin
2005-01-29 13:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Bennett
Post by the swisswatchguy
as long as they do not participate, they cannot order the limited
edition alt.horology watch and miss their lifetime collectors' chance.
I lurk, but really only to learn. If there's nothing I can contribute
then I don't post. On this one, however, I'd be very interested in a
limited edition alt.horology watch.
I don't suppose there's much I can do to help, but I'll be watching
developments with interest.
This is one occasion when a "Me Too" post is relevant

John

Scotland
Brian Talley
2005-01-29 19:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
Okay, we've got a whopping 12 people (by my count) who are interested.
It's time to start designin'!

What are people's preferences? Dress or sport? Arabic? Roman? Just
chapter markers? Case: SS? Some other substance? Dial: Dark? Light?
Hands: Tritium? No lume at all? Crystal: sapphire? Glass? Movement:
2824-2 or similar? Chinese/Russian El-Cheapo(TM)? Custom (after all,
we want to set this watch apart from all the rest)?

I figure the band/bracelet would be up to the individual.

Let's get some thoughts on the design going!

Brian
Roger A. Cope
2005-01-29 20:06:30 UTC
Permalink
Custom
Auto
Round
SS case
Arabic
Center Seconds
Luminous
Sapphire

Best ~ rac
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are
manufacturers
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Mark South
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
Okay, we've got a whopping 12 people (by my count) who are interested.
It's time to start designin'!
What are people's preferences? Dress or sport? Arabic? Roman? Just
chapter markers? Case: SS? Some other substance? Dial: Dark? Light?
2824-2 or similar? Chinese/Russian El-Cheapo(TM)? Custom (after all,
we want to set this watch apart from all the rest)?
I figure the band/bracelet would be up to the individual.
Let's get some thoughts on the design going!
Brian
Revision
2005-01-29 22:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
Custom
Auto
Round
SS case
Arabic
Center Seconds
Luminous
Acrylic
Moka Java
2005-01-30 17:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
Custom
Auto
Round
SS case
Arabic
Center Seconds
Luminous
Sapphire
Best ~ rac
Nothing personal, but that's the most common configuration of a modern,
low cost, mechanical watch. You can order a Tissot right now.

Richard "think different" F
Brian Talley
2005-02-01 21:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
Custom
What? Movement?
Post by Brian Talley
Auto
I'm fine w/ auto. Manual wind is okay, too.
Post by Brian Talley
Round
Yes.
Post by Brian Talley
SS case
Fine.
Post by Brian Talley
Arabic
I prefer Roman or no numbers.
Post by Brian Talley
Center Seconds
That's okay by me.
Post by Brian Talley
Luminous
Tritium works for me.
Post by Brian Talley
Sapphire
Yes, I agree. Mineral glass is a non-starter.
Post by Brian Talley
Best ~ rac
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are
manufacturers
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Mark South
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to
quartz).
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Mark South
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
Okay, we've got a whopping 12 people (by my count) who are interested.
It's time to start designin'!
What are people's preferences? Dress or sport? Arabic? Roman? Just
chapter markers? Case: SS? Some other substance? Dial: Dark? Light?
2824-2 or similar? Chinese/Russian El-Cheapo(TM)? Custom (after all,
we want to set this watch apart from all the rest)?
I figure the band/bracelet would be up to the individual.
Let's get some thoughts on the design going!
Brian
Roger A. Cope
2005-02-02 03:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Brian Talley
Custom
What? Movement?
This is a question I will happily leave to wiser veterans.
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Brian Talley
Arabic
I prefer Roman or no numbers.
Here I personally consider the Roman character consumes too much space when
big enough and is silly when made small. No numerals at all is good.

Best ~ rac
Mark South
2005-01-29 23:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
Okay, we've got a whopping 12 people (by my count) who are interested.
Who have bothered to express interest.
Post by Brian Talley
It's time to start designin'!
What are people's preferences? Dress or sport? Arabic? Roman? Just
chapter markers? Case: SS? Some other substance? Dial: Dark? Light?
2824-2 or similar? Chinese/Russian El-Cheapo(TM)? Custom (after all,
we want to set this watch apart from all the rest)?
I figure the band/bracelet would be up to the individual.
Most manufacturers would include that in the spec, so we should agreee
that too. Of course, it can easily be changed according to personal
preference if one uses a design with standard lugs.
Post by Brian Talley
Let's get some thoughts on the design going!
Definitely. I'm interested to hear what kind of watch would be of
interest to the largest segment of alt.horology.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Bo Williams
2005-01-29 23:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
Post by Brian Talley
Okay, we've got a whopping 12 people (by my count) who are interested.
Who have bothered to express interest.
Post by Brian Talley
It's time to start designin'!
What are people's preferences? Dress or sport? Arabic? Roman? Just
chapter markers? Case: SS? Some other substance? Dial: Dark? Light?
2824-2 or similar? Chinese/Russian El-Cheapo(TM)? Custom (after all,
we want to set this watch apart from all the rest)?
I figure the band/bracelet would be up to the individual.
Most manufacturers would include that in the spec, so we should agreee
that too. Of course, it can easily be changed according to personal
preference if one uses a design with standard lugs.
Post by Brian Talley
Let's get some thoughts on the design going!
Definitely. I'm interested to hear what kind of watch would be of
interest to the largest segment of alt.horology.
I imagine there's broad consensus that it be mechanical, and some will
feel passionately about automatic vs. hand-wind (I don't). I would
prefer stainless, and I'd also prefer a face that isn't black.

Who else?
--
Bo Williams - ***@hiwaay.net
http://hiwaay.net/~williams/
Frank Adam
2005-01-30 00:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bo Williams
Post by Mark South
Definitely. I'm interested to hear what kind of watch would be of
interest to the largest segment of alt.horology.
I imagine there's broad consensus that it be mechanical, and some will
feel passionately about automatic vs. hand-wind (I don't). I would
prefer stainless, and I'd also prefer a face that isn't black.
I'd prefer them to be easily repairable by watchmakers, but damn
confusing for amateurs to even try. And also to break down 2-3 months
after the service warranty runs out..but i might be a tad biased. ;-p

I like plain looking watches. Gold, WG, RG or steel case makes no
difference, as long as the style is elegant, with a brushed or spun
dial to suit.
Date is an acceptable optional extra, but IMO, day-date ruins it.
--
Regards, Frank
Mark South
2005-01-30 09:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Adam
Post by Bo Williams
Post by Mark South
Definitely. I'm interested to hear what kind of watch would be of
interest to the largest segment of alt.horology.
I imagine there's broad consensus that it be mechanical, and some will
feel passionately about automatic vs. hand-wind (I don't). I would
prefer stainless, and I'd also prefer a face that isn't black.
I'm thinking that we are talking about something that will be in a low
price bracket, to make it widely accessible. No precious metals and no
jewels.
Post by Frank Adam
I'd prefer them to be easily repairable by watchmakers, but damn
confusing for amateurs to even try. And also to break down 2-3 months
after the service warranty runs out..but i might be a tad biased. ;-p
And for you and daZ to have exclusive service contracts? :-)
Post by Frank Adam
I like plain looking watches. Gold, WG, RG or steel case makes no
difference, as long as the style is elegant, with a brushed or spun
dial to suit.
Plain white dial to show the alt.horology logo clearly?

BTW, who's doing the alt.horology logo?
Post by Frank Adam
Date is an acceptable optional extra, but IMO, day-date ruins it.
I agree. Besides, if you don't know what day of the week it is you're
probably too drunk to read it off your watch.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
the swisswatchguy
2005-01-30 10:12:22 UTC
Permalink
BTW, who's doing the alt.horology logo?

I would like to suggest that you consider the following message in a
parallel thread:

Newsgroups: alt.horology From: Gordon Moat <***@attglobal.net> - Date:
Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:29:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Lurkers welcome! describe
your favourite watch or your dreams' watch

The watch of my dreams is one I would design. I have an art degree, and
I
currently make my living doing photography, and print design. The
challenge of designing a clean and functional watch would be very
satisfying.

How about your contacting directly Gordon Moat and requesting his kind
assistance to develop both the watch and the logotype. As per his above
quoted description, and being a long time participant to alt.horology,
I am sure that he perfectly knows, which style shall meet everyone's
approval. He shall thrive in the challenge. Both of you shall make a
perfect team, and everybody shall be happy with the results.
Mark South
2005-01-30 11:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by the swisswatchguy
How about your contacting directly Gordon Moat and requesting his kind
assistance to develop both the watch and the logotype.
Emailed him already :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Frank Adam
2005-01-30 20:28:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:02:28 +0100, Mark South
Post by Mark South
Post by Frank Adam
I'd prefer them to be easily repairable by watchmakers, but damn
confusing for amateurs to even try. And also to break down 2-3 months
after the service warranty runs out..but i might be a tad biased. ;-p
And for you and daZ to have exclusive service contracts? :-)
If you insist.. Btw, Daz who ? ;-)
--
Regards, Frank
Mark South
2005-01-30 21:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Adam
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:02:28 +0100, Mark South
Post by Mark South
Post by Frank Adam
I'd prefer them to be easily repairable by watchmakers, but damn
confusing for amateurs to even try. And also to break down 2-3 months
after the service warranty runs out..but i might be a tad biased. ;-p
And for you and daZ to have exclusive service contracts? :-)
If you insist.. Btw, Daz who ? ;-)
"WARNING: This watch uses technology so detailed and advanced that only
ONE PERSON in the ENTIRE WORLD is QUALIFIED to service it in ANY WAY
WHATSOEVER. Any attempt by some other pathetic loser to open, adjust, or
(heaven forbid!) regulate this watch will result in DISASTER of a highly
PERSONAL NATURE which may affect YOU, your IMMEDIATE FAMILY, and possibly
your DOG. SO take NO RISKS and send your watch only to FRANK ADAM, who
will PROVIDE a FREE ESTIMATE for SERVICE at the reasonable charge of
$174.99 plus SHIPPING (actual service not included). Note also that
FAILURE on your part to have the WATCH serviced at intervals of NO LONGER
than 90 DAYS will TOTALLY INVALIDATE the WARRANTY."
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Frank Adam
2005-01-30 21:41:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:00:05 +0100, Mark South
Post by Mark South
Post by Frank Adam
Post by Mark South
Post by Frank Adam
I'd prefer them to be easily repairable by watchmakers, but damn
confusing for amateurs to even try. And also to break down 2-3 months
after the service warranty runs out..but i might be a tad biased. ;-p
And for you and daZ to have exclusive service contracts? :-)
If you insist.. Btw, Daz who ? ;-)
"WARNING: This watch uses technology so detailed and advanced that only
ONE PERSON in the ENTIRE WORLD is QUALIFIED to service it in ANY WAY
WHATSOEVER. Any attempt by some other pathetic loser to open, adjust, or
(heaven forbid!) regulate this watch will result in DISASTER of a highly
PERSONAL NATURE which may affect YOU, your IMMEDIATE FAMILY, and possibly
your DOG. SO take NO RISKS and send your watch only to FRANK ADAM, who
will PROVIDE a FREE ESTIMATE for SERVICE at the reasonable charge of
$174.99 plus SHIPPING (actual service not included). Note also that
FAILURE on your part to have the WATCH serviced at intervals of NO LONGER
than 90 DAYS will TOTALLY INVALIDATE the WARRANTY."
Well, we shouldnt call them "pathetic loser"s (after all, the
servicing costs will force them to become hard working citizens), but
other than that, i'll be happy to print that page of the manual. :-)
--
Regards, Frank
Dieter Michel
2005-01-31 02:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

I'd be interested in that project as well.
Post by Mark South
Post by Bo Williams
Post by Mark South
Definitely. I'm interested to hear what kind of watch would be of
interest to the largest segment of alt.horology.
I imagine there's broad consensus that it be mechanical, and some will
feel passionately about automatic vs. hand-wind (I don't). I would
prefer stainless, and I'd also prefer a face that isn't black.
I'm thinking that we are talking about something that will be in a low
price bracket, to make it widely accessible. No precious metals and no
jewels.
In order to have something visible to have
a look at, I have made a draft that can be
downloaded at
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft1.pdf

Of course, this is not very ingenious at all,
and can be found with a similar look in many
reasonably priced mechanical watches.

Especially if one wants to keep the design
simple (to please everybodies taste and to
keep the costs low) I thought one could put
some attention to details.

For example, in the above draft, the indices
are slightly angled (2°), the dial is some
kind of ivory-white and the watch has a big
date at 12 (if possible). One could broaden
the indices and give them a more trapezoidal
look thus changing the character of the dial.

Marking only every other hour in the version
with digits is admittedly stolen from the
Nomos Tangente ;-)

All the best,

Dieter Michel
Mark South
2005-01-31 08:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
In order to have something visible to have
a look at, I have made a draft that can be
downloaded at
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft1.pdf
Nice going Dieter.
Post by Dieter Michel
Of course, this is not very ingenious at all,
and can be found with a similar look in many
reasonably priced mechanical watches.
But not with our logo on it :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Brian Talley
2005-02-01 21:40:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
Hi all,
I'd be interested in that project as well.
In order to have something visible to have
a look at, I have made a draft that can be
downloaded at
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft1.pdf
Not too bad. Throw a power reserve meter on it and I'd be very
interested!

I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing. Can some of the more
artistic among us start working on a logo? Something elegant, of
course.

Brian
Moka Java
2005-02-02 03:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Dieter Michel
Hi all,
I'd be interested in that project as well.
In order to have something visible to have
a look at, I have made a draft that can be
downloaded at
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft1.pdf
Not too bad. Throw a power reserve meter on it and I'd be very
interested!
As Bo points out the least expensive power reserve movement is an
Orient. Doubtful that Mark will be able to finagle a deal with a Swiss
manufacturer to use an Asian movement.
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing. Can some of the more
artistic among us start working on a logo? Something elegant, of
course.
Perhaps some artistic rendition of A.H?

Richard "looking for simple. elegant and uncluttered" F
Brian Talley
2005-02-02 21:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moka Java
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Dieter Michel
Hi all,
I'd be interested in that project as well.
In order to have something visible to have
a look at, I have made a draft that can be
downloaded at
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft1.pdf
Not too bad. Throw a power reserve meter on it and I'd be very
interested!
As Bo points out the least expensive power reserve movement is an
Orient. Doubtful that Mark will be able to finagle a deal with a Swiss
manufacturer to use an Asian movement.
*mutter grumble fume*

How 'bout skeletonizing the area over the mainspring, then?
Post by Moka Java
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing. Can some of the more
artistic among us start working on a logo? Something elegant, of
course.
Perhaps some artistic rendition of A.H?
That works for me.
Post by Moka Java
Richard "looking for simple. elegant and uncluttered" F
Not a Citizen Skyhawk-esque beastie, then? ;)

Brian
Dieter Michel
2005-02-02 10:50:31 UTC
Permalink
Brian,
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing.
Me neither ;-)

While I'm not the one who is able to design a logo
one could use the fact that the outlines of an A and
an H can be made to share one or two lines to have
at least a starting point for a logo. Like in
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft2.pdf

Version 3 simply uses a special font with the
two characters moved very close to each other.
That makes more for a modern look, however,
rather than elegant.

The more I look at the stylised watch dial in
the first two logo examples, the less I like it.
But anyway ...

Best regards,

Dieter Michel
Mark South
2005-02-02 11:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
Brian,
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing.
Me neither ;-)
Well, if it's the alt.horology watch then there should be an identifiable
associated brand on it, n'est pas?
Post by Dieter Michel
While I'm not the one who is able to design a logo
one could use the fact that the outlines of an A and
an H can be made to share one or two lines to have
at least a starting point for a logo. Like in
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft2.pdf
Thanks for doing those.
Post by Dieter Michel
Version 3 simply uses a special font with the
two characters moved very close to each other.
That makes more for a modern look, however,
rather than elegant.
I like the middle one the best, but I was hoping that there'd be a lot of
input from others as well.
Post by Dieter Michel
The more I look at the stylised watch dial in
the first two logo examples, the less I like it.
But anyway ...
Sized right, it can help to balance the date window. There is, however,
a dnager that it will make the watch look like a chronograph.

What I do think is fantastic is that you are prepared to put in all this
effort to share your ideas with us.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Xavi (ZixxeR)
2005-02-02 11:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
Well, if it's the alt.horology watch then there should be an identifiable
associated brand on it, n'est pas?
I agree.
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft2.pdf
...
Post by Mark South
I like the middle one the best, but I was hoping that there'd be a lot of
input from others as well.
I like the desing very much, but I'd rather have the complete
"alt.horology" text. In case this is not possible, I like the middle
one the best, too, but the one on the right is nice too.

Thanks, Dieter, for your work!

Xavi
--
Dain bramaged
Brian Talley
2005-02-02 21:43:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
I like the desing very much, but I'd rather have the complete
"alt.horology" text. In case this is not possible, I like the middle
one the best, too, but the one on the right is nice too.
Can we maybe compromise with a tiny "alt.horology" at the bottom of
the dial below the 6 o'clock position (where 'Swiss Made' might appear)?
And/or engraved on the case back?

Brian
Xavi (ZixxeR)
2005-02-03 08:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
I like the desing very much, but I'd rather have the complete
"alt.horology" text. In case this is not possible, I like the middle
one the best, too, but the one on the right is nice too.
Can we maybe compromise with a tiny "alt.horology" at the bottom of
the dial below the 6 o'clock position (where 'Swiss Made' might appear)?
And/or engraved on the case back?
If you take out the "or" in the above sentence, it would be perfect
:-)
Yes, a tiny "alt.horology" would be OK for me.

Xavi
--
Dain bramaged
Dieter Michel
2005-02-02 21:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Mark,
Post by Mark South
Well, if it's the alt.horology watch then there should
be an identifiable associated brand on it, n'est pas?
of course. The question is whether simply printing
"alt.horology" on the dial is sufficient. Maybe in
combination with a logo ...
Post by Mark South
I like the middle one the best,
To be honest, I'm not yet in a a state to be happy
with any of them. I feel something is missing or
has to be changed.
In any case, these drafts are simply meant to be
visualizations of thoughts and ideas, not readymade
concepts.
Post by Mark South
but I was hoping that there'd be a lot of
input from others as well.
I even think that is necessary (apart from being
more fun to discuss ideas and details).

My personal experience is that it is very useful
to have somebody who has a very different opinion
and says: "I don't like that as it is now. It should
be more $DIFFERENT_LOOK and one should change $DETAIL."

Otherwise one tends to stick to one's own path of
thinking which is not very easy to leave without
external input.

Best regards,

Dieter Michel
Mark South
2005-02-02 22:40:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
Mark,
Post by Mark South
Well, if it's the alt.horology watch then there should
be an identifiable associated brand on it, n'est pas?
of course. The question is whether simply printing
"alt.horology" on the dial is sufficient. Maybe in
combination with a logo ...
What about recoding that, like maybe superposing a block font:

ALT DOT
HOROLOGY

I can't visualise what that would look like on the watch though.
Post by Dieter Michel
Post by Mark South
I like the middle one the best,
To be honest, I'm not yet in a a state to be happy
with any of them. I feel something is missing or
has to be changed.
In any case, these drafts are simply meant to be
visualizations of thoughts and ideas, not readymade
concepts.
Agreed, that's how I work as well, but I was giving you my feedback
direction-wise.
Post by Dieter Michel
Post by Mark South
but I was hoping that there'd be a lot of
input from others as well.
There's been a bit more by now.
Post by Dieter Michel
I even think that is necessary (apart from being
more fun to discuss ideas and details).
My personal experience is that it is very useful
to have somebody who has a very different opinion
and says: "I don't like that as it is now. It should
be more $DIFFERENT_LOOK and one should change $DETAIL."
It's enjoyable to start finding out what other people here really like,
isn't it?
Post by Dieter Michel
Otherwise one tends to stick to one's own path of thinking which is not
very easy to leave without external input.
Try designing software!
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Dieter Michel
2005-02-02 23:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mark,
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
In any case, these drafts are simply meant to be
visualizations of thoughts and ideas, not readymade
concepts.
Agreed, that's how I work as well, but I was giving
you my feedback direction-wise.
I got that right, just wanted to prevent voting
about drafts much too early. The discussion about
the design IMHO is most of the fun of this project.
Otherwise everybody could just see his local dealer,
chose his favourite watch and have "alt.horology"
engraved somewhere ;-)
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
Post by Mark South
but I was hoping that there'd be a lot of
input from others as well.
There's been a bit more by now.
Just in case I have not quoted correctly:
You are citing yourself here. I'm not expecting
anybody to input more (or less) than he/she wants to.
This is fun and it's our free time. Usenet is for
everybody to participate in the way they like
(and of course not infringe the netiquette).
Post by Mark South
Try designing software!
I'd better not. You should see my spaghetti code ...

All the best,

Dieter
Xavi (ZixxeR)
2005-02-03 08:15:34 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:40:34 +0100, Mark South
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
Mark,
Post by Mark South
Well, if it's the alt.horology watch then there should
be an identifiable associated brand on it, n'est pas?
of course. The question is whether simply printing
"alt.horology" on the dial is sufficient. Maybe in
combination with a logo ...
ALT DOT
HOROLOGY
This has 12 characters!! I haven't tried to visualize the effect
yet, just thinking... would it be a good idea to put one "letter"
(counting the dot as such) in each hour?


Xavi
--
Dain bramaged
Brian Talley
2005-02-03 21:22:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
Mark,
Post by Mark South
Well, if it's the alt.horology watch then there should
be an identifiable associated brand on it, n'est pas?
of course. The question is whether simply printing
"alt.horology" on the dial is sufficient. Maybe in
combination with a logo ...
ALT DOT
HOROLOGY
Erm...this isn't working for me. I much prefer the idea of a group-
conceived logo prominent on the dial, with alt.horology below 6
o'clock and engraved on the case back.
Post by Mark South
I can't visualise what that would look like on the watch though.
I'd have to see it, but my initial mental images indicate I would
not be too thrilled. Maybe something with the letters ADH? Since
this was borne of USEnet, maybe an image incorporating a net?
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
My personal experience is that it is very useful
to have somebody who has a very different opinion
and says: "I don't like that as it is now. It should
be more $DIFFERENT_LOOK and one should change $DETAIL."
It's enjoyable to start finding out what other people here really like,
isn't it?
Yeah, it's cool.
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
Otherwise one tends to stick to one's own path of thinking which is not
very easy to leave without external input.
Try designing software!
I do that every day....

Brian
Brian Talley
2005-02-02 21:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
Brian,
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing.
Me neither ;-)
Well, if it's the alt.horology watch then there should be an identifiable
associated brand on it, n'est pas?
Bien sur! But "alt.horology" is a little goofy and reeks of terminal
geektitude, IMHO. I'm just suggesting we come up with a logo or symbol
that defines the watch and its origins while retaining some semblance
of elegance.
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
While I'm not the one who is able to design a logo
one could use the fact that the outlines of an A and
an H can be made to share one or two lines to have
at least a starting point for a logo. Like in
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft2.pdf
I like the middle one the best, but I was hoping that there'd be a lot of
input from others as well.
I have this thing against serifs. Done with a sans-serif font, I might
agree.
Post by Mark South
Post by Dieter Michel
The more I look at the stylised watch dial in
the first two logo examples, the less I like it.
But anyway ...
Sized right, it can help to balance the date window. There is, however,
a dnager that it will make the watch look like a chronograph.
Keep the logo low-contrast so as to not draw *that* much attention.

Besides, the date window could be positioned at 10:30 or some other
unusual spot on the dial.

Brian
Gordon Moat
2005-02-02 20:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
Brian,
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing.
Me neither ;-)
While I'm not the one who is able to design a logo
one could use the fact that the outlines of an A and
an H can be made to share one or two lines to have
at least a starting point for a logo. Like in
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft2.pdf
Version 3 simply uses a special font with the
two characters moved very close to each other.
That makes more for a modern look, however,
rather than elegant.
The more I look at the stylised watch dial in
the first two logo examples, the less I like it.
But anyway ...
Best regards,
Dieter Michel
Nice, though I think just using the letter "a" and "h" does not hold up
well to satyr, which is one of the tests of any good logo. Place those
two letters close to each other, and it looks like it states "Ahh",
which as many of us know is a sigh of relief . . . probably not the
association some would want with a watch.

A brand or logo should be Dynamic, Friendly, and Reliable. A
consideration should be given to readability .vs. visual interest. Some
respect of the heritage of watches, and existing and past companies,
needs to be considered. Also, any cultural implications should be taken
into consideration, i.e. the meaning of the word "alt" imply in
different cultures and languages.

Technically, a proper brand, logo, or logotype should work well small,
reversed, or even upside down. Try to evaluate the strengths,
weaknesses, uniqueness, flexibility, memorable nature, and the possible
longevity. Advertising is for the moment, but design should last much
longer.

I hope I am not stepping on any toes here. I have a background in
design, and a large portion of my work is design related. Developing a
proper brand requires a great deal of development, and sometimes a great
deal of time. While one of your first ideas might end up becoming the
one produced, I urge you to continue exploring many variations. The last
brand I developed for a company went through over 200 variations before
a final design was chosen, and it was very close to one of the first
fifty I developed for that company . . . keep up the good work, and
let's see some more.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com>
Dieter Michel
2005-02-02 22:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gordon,
Post by Gordon Moat
Nice, though I think just using the letter "a" and "h"
does not hold up well to satyr, which is one of the
tests of any good logo.
100% agree. As I mentioned in a separate posting,
I'm not happy with any of the three versions.
They are not sexy (yet).

Simply putting the two letters together is only
the first approach when leaving the path of simply
printing "alt.horology" on the dial. Just check
what it looks like in different versions.

The third version could perhaps be used on a modern
style quartz watch, but it's not exactly elegant.

I doubt whether using the stylised dial as part
of a logo in the rather realistic form as it is
in the first two versions should be kept that way.
Maybe only if the logo itself moves away from a
simple combination of two letters.
Post by Gordon Moat
I hope I am not stepping on any toes here.
Absolutely not. I'm very happy with that and I think
this is what is really needed here and makes for the
fun of the project. (Apart from that I am not a watch
or logo designer, so I have no reputation to lose ;-))

To my mind, it is really useful to have constructive
criticism because (only) that is capable to improve
the result.

I can remember that for a (photographic) project the
following approach was used to generate new approaches:

1. Brainstorming - what kinds of possibilites of a
possible design/implementation come to our minds first?
2. Make a list of these ideas and do *not* use any of
them for the further work because they will tend to be
not new and/or interesting.

Of course, this approach is not applicable everywhere.
I only wanted to point out that the first idea needs
not be the best (or even a good) one.

My very personal opinion about the last three drafts is:

- stainless case is ok
- I'd prefer a white (or rather ivory) dial,
maybe also slightly structured like in
Loading Image...
(but not neccessary)
- I like the shape of the hands for an elegant watch
- I like a big date and the 12 o'clock position
- I don't like the logo (in it's present state)
- I'm not sure about the indices. If they are silk-sceened,
they may need some extra. Maybe a slightly different
shape (more angled?). Can they be attached to the dial
as 3D-objects? If so, maybe in the color of the dials
or silver?
- I don't like the overall impression yet. The look
is not organic/homogeneous.
- Numbers or not? In case a decision between arabic
and roman is difficult, I'd rather go for no numbers.

- power indicator?
One shouldn't need one in case of an automatic movement,
since this special timepiece is expected to be worn all
day, so it should always be wound up ;-))

all the best,

Dieter Michel
Roger A. Cope
2005-02-02 23:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Excellent input Gordon.

Dieter: Let's turn the box upside down for a minute. Is the specification
"round" limiting or restrictive in some way? What about some tonneau or tank
shape? Does that open up any options?
Post by Dieter Michel
Hi Gordon,
Post by Gordon Moat
Nice, though I think just using the letter "a" and "h"
does not hold up well to satyr, which is one of the
tests of any good logo.
100% agree. As I mentioned in a separate posting,
I'm not happy with any of the three versions.
They are not sexy (yet).
Simply putting the two letters together is only
the first approach when leaving the path of simply
printing "alt.horology" on the dial. Just check
what it looks like in different versions.
The third version could perhaps be used on a modern
style quartz watch, but it's not exactly elegant.
I doubt whether using the stylised dial as part
of a logo in the rather realistic form as it is
in the first two versions should be kept that way.
Maybe only if the logo itself moves away from a
simple combination of two letters.
Post by Gordon Moat
I hope I am not stepping on any toes here.
Absolutely not. I'm very happy with that and I think
this is what is really needed here and makes for the
fun of the project. (Apart from that I am not a watch
or logo designer, so I have no reputation to lose ;-))
To my mind, it is really useful to have constructive
criticism because (only) that is capable to improve
the result.
I can remember that for a (photographic) project the
1. Brainstorming - what kinds of possibilites of a
possible design/implementation come to our minds first?
2. Make a list of these ideas and do *not* use any of
them for the further work because they will tend to be
not new and/or interesting.
Of course, this approach is not applicable everywhere.
I only wanted to point out that the first idea needs
not be the best (or even a good) one.
- stainless case is ok
- I'd prefer a white (or rather ivory) dial,
maybe also slightly structured like in
http://www.hxd.de/222/m1272-z.jpg
(but not neccessary)
- I like the shape of the hands for an elegant watch
- I like a big date and the 12 o'clock position
- I don't like the logo (in it's present state)
- I'm not sure about the indices. If they are silk-sceened,
they may need some extra. Maybe a slightly different
shape (more angled?). Can they be attached to the dial
as 3D-objects? If so, maybe in the color of the dials
or silver?
- I don't like the overall impression yet. The look
is not organic/homogeneous.
- Numbers or not? In case a decision between arabic
and roman is difficult, I'd rather go for no numbers.
- power indicator?
One shouldn't need one in case of an automatic movement,
since this special timepiece is expected to be worn all
day, so it should always be wound up ;-))
all the best,
Dieter Michel
Dieter Michel
2005-02-02 23:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Roger,
Post by Roger A. Cope
Dieter: Let's turn the box upside down for a minute.
Is the specification "round" limiting or restrictive
in some way?
Not for me. It could be a restriction regarding
custom manufacture at a reasonable price, but
even then I cannot imagine why "not-round" should
be an imporatant price point. After all, it will
most probably not be a custom cast case but a
selection from a choice of cases that can be
supplied within a given budget.

But I'm not the one to ask a question regarding
the physical manufacture and the costs related
to that. Mark?
Post by Roger A. Cope
What about some tonneau or tank shape?
Why not? I have seen one or the other tonneau
shapes during the last couple of weeks that I
could imagine (for myself) to be a good basis
for a custom watch.

Best regards,

Dieter
Mark South
2005-02-03 12:04:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
Hi Roger,
Post by Roger A. Cope
Dieter: Let's turn the box upside down for a minute.
Is the specification "round" limiting or restrictive
in some way?
Not for me. It could be a restriction regarding
custom manufacture at a reasonable price, but
even then I cannot imagine why "not-round" should
be an imporatant price point. After all, it will
most probably not be a custom cast case but a
selection from a choice of cases that can be
supplied within a given budget.
And I suspect that means the choice will be mostly fairly conventional
options.
Post by Dieter Michel
But I'm not the one to ask a question regarding
the physical manufacture and the costs related
to that. Mark?
Still awaiting replies to many of my enquiries, I am suspecting that many
manufacturers have not got their heads around this Internet thing.

Need more time to phone people direct I guess.
Post by Dieter Michel
Post by Roger A. Cope
What about some tonneau or tank shape?
Why not? I have seen one or the other tonneau
shapes during the last couple of weeks that I
could imagine (for myself) to be a good basis
for a custom watch.
Hmm. I still don't have a decent tonneau in my collection ;-)

BTW, did I mention that we should probably find a way to have the year in
the design as well? Would you guys be able to have some fun working that
in?

I say the year so that we have the option of doing it again if (a) it's
fun (b) everyone likes the result and (c) it doesn't kill me.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
JG
2005-02-03 13:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,

I've been lurking here for some while - (and learning - strewth am I
learning!). I'm in the business of Computers and Graphic Design and
since you first started talking about this project I have thought about
designing a logo.

Paying Work got in the way over the past two weeks and since Deiter
posted his thoughts I put the idea on hold but since you all seem to
have an open mind and want more ideas maybe I might be able to
contribute.

I haven't worn a watch for some 10 (or more) years and not looked at
buying one for even longer, so I don't have any pre-conceived ideas
about styling conforming to a particular marque (Rolex, Omega etc.) -
the reason I am here at all is that last year I decided to try to
realize a lifelong ambition of building a wooden clock with calendar
complications.

If you would do me the curtesy of looking at

http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Alt-Horology Design.pdf

I would appreciate your comments.

JG
Xavi (ZixxeR)
2005-02-03 13:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by JG
If you would do me the curtesy of looking at
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Alt-Horology Design.pdf
The dial and general design is not bad at all, I like them.
I like the logo in the second one a lot. It shows the whole text, it
is quite simple, readable, there is a watch dial in there, sans serif
typeface...
The first one, even if I have just suggested this
one-character-in-every-hour-mark design this morning, is less
readable.It is not bad, though. Do you think if we put the letters
instead of the hour mark, as opposed to having them under them, would
be better, or worse?
The handles are not exactly of my taste, but they are not ugly.

Thanks!

(please excuse my English, it is not my mother tongue and a lot of
times I have my doubts I'm not making mistakes, please feel free to
teach me when I'm wrong, I'll appreciate it)


Xavi
--
Dain bramaged
Mark South
2005-02-03 14:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
(please excuse my English, it is not my mother tongue and a lot of
times I have my doubts I'm not making mistakes, please feel free to
teach me when I'm wrong, I'll appreciate it)
You're doing fine so far, don't let worrying about it stop you.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Xavi (ZixxeR)
2005-02-03 14:49:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:30:55 +0100, Mark South
Post by Mark South
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
(please excuse my English, it is not my mother tongue and a lot of
times I have my doubts I'm not making mistakes, please feel free to
teach me when I'm wrong, I'll appreciate it)
You're doing fine so far, don't let worrying about it stop you.
Until today, it has not, and I expect to be improving, so it won't :-)
It is just that I sometimes doubt about some words or sentences, I'd
like to be able to write it as well as all of you. Thanks anyway for
your encouragement :-)


Xavi
--
Dain bramaged
Xavi (ZixxeR)
2005-02-03 14:51:45 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:49:51 +0100, "Xavi (ZixxeR)"
Post by Mark South
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
(please excuse my English, it is not my mother tongue and a lot of
times I have my doubts I'm not making mistakes, please feel free to
teach me when I'm wrong, I'll appreciate it)
You're doing fine so far, don't let worrying about it stop you.
BTW, I know less about watches than about English, and it hasn't
stopped me reading (and when knowledge is not needed, writing) here
:-)
I'm happy to be able to participate in these few threads, these days.



Xavi
--
Dain bramaged
Mark South
2005-02-03 16:24:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:49:51 +0100, "Xavi (ZixxeR)"
Post by Mark South
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
(please excuse my English, it is not my mother tongue and a lot of
times I have my doubts I'm not making mistakes, please feel free to
teach me when I'm wrong, I'll appreciate it)
You're doing fine so far, don't let worrying about it stop you.
BTW, I know less about watches than about English,
I think I can honestly say that I know less about watches than almost
anything else. I come here to learn, mostly.
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
and it hasn't
stopped me reading (and when knowledge is not needed, writing) here
:-)
As I say, you're doing fine. People whose first language isn't english
get cut a little slack in general, mainly because it's a damn terrible
language to have to learn. Given the trouble I'm having with
learning French I'm not going to complain about imperfect grammar :-)

Just pray that I don't start posting in one of my second languages. That
would be a terrible sight to see.
Post by Xavi (ZixxeR)
I'm happy to be able to participate in these few threads, these days.
Happy to have you. That includes you other lurkers and recent delurkers
out there.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Dieter Michel
2005-02-05 00:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi JG,
Post by JG
If you would do me the curtesy of looking at
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Alt-Horology Design.pdf
I would appreciate your comments.
I like both of your versions better than my suggestions.
The logo on the right version is very good, IMHO.
Distributing the letters near to the indices is
possible (left version), but I like the logo better.

The indices at 12, 3, 6 and 9 look like prismatic
3D applications. If so, I like them very much.

If I could apply for changes on the hands, I would
remove the square tip of the second hand because
I find it a little bit irritating (my personal
taste <or lack of>, of course).

Now this project really becomes fun.

All the best,

Dieter
Mark South
2005-02-05 12:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
Now this project really becomes fun.
Cool. Lots of people contributing to design and specification.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Mark South
2005-02-05 12:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by JG
I've been lurking here for some while - (and learning - strewth am I
learning!). I'm in the business of Computers and Graphic Design and
since you first started talking about this project I have thought about
designing a logo.
Welcome, BTW.
Post by JG
Paying Work got in the way over the past two weeks and since Deiter
posted his thoughts I put the idea on hold but since you all seem to
have an open mind and want more ideas maybe I might be able to
contribute.
That's excellent.
Post by JG
I haven't worn a watch for some 10 (or more) years and not looked at
buying one for even longer, so I don't have any pre-conceived ideas
about styling conforming to a particular marque (Rolex, Omega etc.) -
the reason I am here at all is that last year I decided to try to
realize a lifelong ambition of building a wooden clock with calendar
complications.
I look forward to seeing the pictures when you post them.
Post by JG
If you would do me the curtesy of looking at
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Alt-Horology Design.pdf
I would appreciate your comments.
I see a lot there to like. Two good ways to do the "alt.horology"
thing. Thanks for the contribution, hope there's more coming.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
JG
2005-02-05 13:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
Post by JG
I've been lurking here for some while
Welcome, BTW.
Thanks.
Post by Mark South
I see a lot there to like. Two good ways to do the "alt.horology"
thing. Thanks for the contribution, hope there's more coming.
and there's more . . . (who WAS that comedian?)

Five new .PDF files for your consideration . . .

All have been modified in line with Deiter's basic lug design and better
positioned date

A Gold version (could be SS and PVD of course) with modified hands

http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch A.pdf

A SS version with square taken off seconds sweep

http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch B.pdf

As 'B' but with a seconds sweep that I would like - though I don't know
if it is technically possible - where a marker is on the rim of a clear
disk (it is shown at 23 sec's if you have difficulty)

http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch C.pdf

One for Deiter - showing the detail of the battens at 12, 3, 6 & 9

http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Batten Detail.pdf


and finally - some variations for the Basic Logo

http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Logos.pdf

Thanks for your kind comments so far - please be brutally honest if you
see anything that doesn't appeal.

JG
Tom Bennett
2005-02-05 14:24:06 UTC
Permalink
"JG" wrote > A Gold version (could be SS and PVD of course) with modified
hands
Post by JG
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch A.pdf
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch B.pdf
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch C.pdf
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Batten Detail.pdf
Regret, can't get these links to work (even by playing around with the
spacings etc. of the broken parts) at the end of the links
Post by JG
and finally - some variations for the Basic Logo
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Logos.pdf
Quite like no5 followed by no2. Have to say, I'm *not* keen on the
spiders' web designs

Regards,

Tom.
JG
2005-02-05 17:41:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Bennett
"JG" wrote > A Gold version (could be SS and PVD of course) with modified
hands
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch-A.pdf
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch-B.pdf
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/AHWatch-C.pdf
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Batten-Detail.pdf
Regret, can't get these links to work (even by playing around with the
spacings etc. of the broken parts) at the end of the links
Appologies for that - nor can I when I double-click the link, but cannot
see why - the space *shouldn't* be a problem. If I cut and paste they
do work (for me). I've now re-named the files putting a hyphen in the
space so I'll cross my fingers.
Post by Tom Bennett
and finally - some variations for the Basic Logo
http://www.crescentcomputing.co.uk/Logos.pdf
Quite like no5 followed by no2. Have to say, I'm *not* keen on the
spiders' web designs
Nor am I really but someone posited the idea so I 'had-a-go'.

JG
Bo Williams
2005-02-05 18:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by JG
Post by Tom Bennett
Quite like no5 followed by no2. Have to say, I'm *not* keen on the
spiders' web designs
Nor am I really but someone posited the idea so I 'had-a-go'.
As far as I'm concerned, if the price comes in under $200, I'm very
likely to purchase an example of anything the group comes up with. I
have my preferences in watches just like we all do, but on the other
hand I can usually find something to like about all but the most radical
and/or gaudy pieces, and design discussions to this point clearly
indicate that we're not headed in that direction.

I think the far more important question at this point is whether we have
100 takers. By my (admittedly informal) count, we're not even close.
While I'm very interested in one, I'm not likely to be interested in
buying 6 or 7 examples to meet the count (as everyone expressing
interest so far would have to do). I really don't think whether we get
to 100 is going to have as much to do with the design of the watch as we
might think. All of you who have said or leaned yes: given the nature
of the discussion so far, do you really think you'll withdraw your
interest based solely on the design? My bet would be most would say
"no" to that, and I'm extending that logic to those who might be
ambivalent about or ignorant of the project to this point. It's going
to be a tasteful piece, so for the most part, people who *would* buy a
custom $100 watch designed by an alt.horology consortium *will* buy this
one.

My question is whether there are 100 people in the former group.
--
Bo Williams - ***@hiwaay.net
http://hiwaay.net/~williams/
Dieter Michel
2005-02-04 23:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gordon and all,
Post by Gordon Moat
Post by Dieter Michel
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing.
Me neither ;-)
A brand or logo should be Dynamic, Friendly, and Reliable.
[...]
Technically, a proper brand, logo, or logotype should work well
small, reversed, or even upside down.
what about keeping "alt.horology" literally,
but using the strings "alt" and "horology" as
hands on a stylised dial with the dot at the
center? Like in
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft3.pdf
in the leftmost example.

I tried to reduce the weight of the stylised dial
by removing the circle and enlarged the whole
thing a bit. Still, to me the font size of the
"hands" is too small. Maybe one can move the
"Automatic" under the date to make room for
a somewhat larger logo.

Best regards,

Dieter
Brian Talley
2005-02-02 21:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dieter Michel
Brian,
Post by Brian Talley
I'm not to sure about the 'alt.horology' thing.
Me neither ;-)
While I'm not the one who is able to design a logo
one could use the fact that the outlines of an A and
an H can be made to share one or two lines to have
at least a starting point for a logo. Like in
http://www.prosound.de/alth_watch_draft2.pdf
Version 3 simply uses a special font with the
two characters moved very close to each other.
That makes more for a modern look, however,
rather than elegant.
Of the three, I think I like the third best.

Modern doesn't necessarily mean inelegant.

You're doing great - keep at it! :)

Brian
Thore Karlsen
2005-01-30 07:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bo Williams
Post by Mark South
Post by Brian Talley
Let's get some thoughts on the design going!
Definitely. I'm interested to hear what kind of watch would be of
interest to the largest segment of alt.horology.
I imagine there's broad consensus that it be mechanical, and some will
feel passionately about automatic vs. hand-wind (I don't). I would
prefer stainless, and I'd also prefer a face that isn't black.
Who else?
I would also be interested. I don't feel strongly about automatic vs.
hand-wind, nor really dial color. (Although I would prefer a white dial
over a silver dial.)

Other things:

Round
Center seconds
Sapphire
ETA movement
Date or no date, doesn't matter

I'd prefer something with a simple and clean design, both for the dial
and the case. For the shape of the case/bezel I would prefer something
like the JLC Master line. Very classic, no fuss.
--
Be seeing you.
Brian Talley
2005-02-01 21:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
Post by Brian Talley
Okay, we've got a whopping 12 people (by my count) who are interested.
Who have bothered to express interest.
Post by Brian Talley
It's time to start designin'!
What are people's preferences? Dress or sport? Arabic? Roman? Just
chapter markers? Case: SS? Some other substance? Dial: Dark? Light?
2824-2 or similar? Chinese/Russian El-Cheapo(TM)? Custom (after all,
we want to set this watch apart from all the rest)?
I figure the band/bracelet would be up to the individual.
Most manufacturers would include that in the spec, so we should agreee
that too. Of course, it can easily be changed according to personal
preference if one uses a design with standard lugs.
Post by Brian Talley
Let's get some thoughts on the design going!
Definitely. I'm interested to hear what kind of watch would be of
interest to the largest segment of alt.horology.
My $0.02:

SS is fine, and I'm open to other materials. Sapphire is a must.
Display back is optional with an ETA mov't but a must-have if we
go with a custom movement. Date is cool. Day is unnecessary and
may detract. I would like a power meter at 9:00 or 3:00 and subdial
seconds at 3:00 or 9:00 and date at 6:00. I'm also cool with center
seconds. A power meter somewhere would be nice, though. A reasonably
high-contrast dial is desirable. I prefer darker hands with a ligher
dial. Water-resistant to the point I can swim (not dive) with it
would be good.

I defer to the collective wisdom of the group to select a movement
that is accurate and of high quality without being too costly.

Brian
Bo Williams
2005-02-01 22:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Talley
SS is fine, and I'm open to other materials. Sapphire is a must.
Display back is optional with an ETA mov't but a must-have if we
go with a custom movement. Date is cool. Day is unnecessary and
may detract. I would like a power meter at 9:00 or 3:00 and subdial
seconds at 3:00 or 9:00 and date at 6:00. I'm also cool with center
seconds. A power meter somewhere would be nice, though. A reasonably
high-contrast dial is desirable. I prefer darker hands with a ligher
dial. Water-resistant to the point I can swim (not dive) with it
would be good.
I defer to the collective wisdom of the group to select a movement
that is accurate and of high quality without being too costly.
The most cost-effective way to get a power meter may be to use an Orient
movement (just a thought; they seem to be the only manufacturer with
inexpensive pieces that have them). I don't have any idea how easy they
would be to get; seems like the watches themselves are comparatively tough.

Also, it seems to me that we don't have much hope of coming in at $100
with date and power meter complications, sapphire crystal, and what is
sure to be a fair amount of dial work given this crowd's eye for detail.
That's not necessarily a turn-off for me; I only raise it because the
higher the price goes, the less likely it is that we'll have 100 takers.
--
Bo Williams - ***@hiwaay.net
http://hiwaay.net/~williams/
Moka Java
2005-01-30 17:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
The thread about Pantars made me look around, and there are manufacturers
who will make up quantities of a design from 100 up. They can be in a
wide range of price brackets too.
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
My research is ongoing to see who would be able to make up a low-cost
automatic (since I'm sure the majority of us would prefer that to quartz).
This has a an extra benefit that we could all wear the same watch, at
least while reading a.h, and not have any one-upmanship competitions :-)
A manual wind 2801 movement or surplus AS caliber may help to keep costs
down and will make for a thinner, more comfortable watch. Design wise,
I've really become partial to the Nomos; simple, elegant and easy to
ready. My 60's Universal Polerouter with silver dial and hands, cross
hairs, engine turned chapter ring and no numbers is also a favorite but
would probably be costly to reproduce. My Rolex Zephyr has a similar
dial but gold hands and gold engine turned bezel.

Richard "sign me up for 2, one to wear and one to keep" F
Mark South
2005-01-30 20:47:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moka Java
A manual wind 2801 movement or surplus AS caliber may help to keep costs
down and will make for a thinner, more comfortable watch. Design wise,
I've really become partial to the Nomos; simple, elegant and easy to
ready.
I'll keep it in mind, but serious research is on hold for a couple weeks
due to unwanted real-life work and stuff.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Jim Bianchi
2005-01-30 23:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
Post by Moka Java
A manual wind 2801 movement or surplus AS caliber may help to keep costs
down and will make for a thinner, more comfortable watch. Design wise,
I'll keep it in mind, but serious research is on hold for a couple weeks
due to unwanted real-life work and stuff.
Thought: Obliviously, satisfying everyone is gonna be real hard. I
mean, some want automatics, others prefer mechanicals or quartz movements,
while, personally, I'd prefer a pocket watch. And that's just the start.

Most all of us has a favorite watch (or watch type). Why not just
have dials made up with the logo that's been decided on, and sell them? We
could then put that dial on our own preference of watch. This'd be ever so
much cheaper to do -- why it'd prob allow for both wrist and pocket watch
dials both to be made up.
--
***@sonic.net

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary, and those who don't."
Stoat
2005-01-30 18:45:13 UTC
Permalink
I'm an interested lurker, you can count me in.

I prefer the PP 3919 style, and if you can do the movement as well for
that price I might even have two.
--
Stoatgobbler
l***@uk2.net
2005-01-30 19:15:41 UTC
Permalink
I'd be interested if they're to be made available to the UK
Mark South
2005-01-30 20:46:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@uk2.net
I'd be interested if they're to be made available to the UK
If we can do it, there should be no problems shipping them
anywhere, provided that the buyers can stand whatever shipping charges
apply.

At worst, I pop over the channel to England fairly regularly and I could
always hand-carry a couple.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Walter Spector
2005-02-02 08:49:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
...
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
(delurking)

How about this for a basic set of specs:

1.) Styling-wise, something like an Omega DeVille. E.g., dressy enough to wear
to the office, but not 'flashy'. (NO DIVERS BEZELS.)

2.) Handwound mech is fine. Ability to hack seconds is desirable. Power reserve
feature would be great.

3.) Date not essential. Especially if hand-wound.

4.) Forget a chrono. They are a dime a dozen, and I rarely use the chrono features.

5.) As an alternative I'd *really* like a reasonable alarm feature. New Memovoxs
and Crickets are way to expensive. The need for an alarm is something which
forces me to use quartz watches much of the time.

"An alarm feature, combined with power reserve meter, means that one has
complete assurance that the appointment will not be missed."

6.) Since the internet is a 24 hour activity, consider a GMT hand.

7.) It must be easy to read in all lighting situations. To support this, there
should be obvious contrast between the hands and face. The hands should also
be luminous. (The Swiss Army Officers watch is a nice example of this.)

8.) Saphire glass would be nice. Display back not a huge requirement.

9.) Leather band is fine. I generally don't like bracelets.

10.) Don't waste a lot of budget on fancy boxes.

(back to lurk mode)

Walt Spector
(w6ws at earthlink dot net)
Mark South
2005-02-02 11:32:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Spector
Post by Mark South
...
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
(delurking)
See, that didn't hurt! And welcome, BTW :-)
Post by Walter Spector
1.) Styling-wise, something like an Omega DeVille. E.g., dressy enough to wear
to the office, but not 'flashy'. (NO DIVERS BEZELS.)
Maybe we should ask Omega to do us a special edition?
Post by Walter Spector
2.) Handwound mech is fine. Ability to hack seconds is desirable. Power reserve
feature would be great.
Power reserve will probably be out of reach for an affordable watch.
Post by Walter Spector
3.) Date not essential. Especially if hand-wound.
I'm agnostic on date, although I find it useful.
Post by Walter Spector
4.) Forget a chrono. They are a dime a dozen, and I rarely use the chrono features.
No mechanical chronographs at reasonable prices anyway.
Post by Walter Spector
5.) As an alternative I'd *really* like a reasonable alarm feature. New Memovoxs
and Crickets are way to expensive. The need for an alarm is something which
forces me to use quartz watches much of the time.
"An alarm feature, combined with power reserve meter, means that one has
complete assurance that the appointment will not be missed."
Where's that quote from?
Post by Walter Spector
6.) Since the internet is a 24 hour activity, consider a GMT hand.
Does that help?
Post by Walter Spector
7.) It must be easy to read in all lighting situations. To support this, there
should be obvious contrast between the hands and face. The hands should also
be luminous. (The Swiss Army Officers watch is a nice example of this.)
Noted.
Post by Walter Spector
8.) Saphire glass would be nice. Display back not a huge requirement.
Sapphire is one of the things that's getting cheaper, so this may be
achievable.
Post by Walter Spector
9.) Leather band is fine. I generally don't like bracelets.
Am I right in assuming that we should aim to spend the money on the watch,
and leave the group members to change the strap/bracelet to whatever they
prefer?
Post by Walter Spector
10.) Don't waste a lot of budget on fancy boxes.
Agreed, although I would remark that an interesting box adds to the
collectibility.
Post by Walter Spector
(back to lurk mode)
Don't stay there permanently now we know you're there, OK?

And thanks for the input.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
Roger A. Cope
2005-02-02 14:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Mark: This distills the previous.

re > Power reserve and "I'd *really* like a reasonable alarm feature." Bo
Williams pointed out, "seems to me that we don't have much hope of coming in
at $100 with date and power meter complications,..."

So keep hammering on the original premise. Namely; an affordable,
commemorative, distinctive and interesting piece.

"easy to read in all lighting situations." Yeah, I support this one.

Mark said "Am I right in assuming that we should aim to spend the money on
the watch, and leave the group members to change the strap/bracelet to
whatever they prefer?" Yes. While I distinctly recall this point made
earlier I looked but did not see the reference. Not an assumption. A good
idea and contributes to reduced cost.

Nice work everybody.

Best ~` rac
Walter Spector
2005-02-02 15:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark South
...
Post by Walter Spector
1.) Styling-wise, something like an Omega DeVille. E.g., dressy enough to wear
to the office, but not 'flashy'. (NO DIVERS BEZELS.)
Maybe we should ask Omega to do us a special edition?
Cost?
Post by Mark South
Post by Walter Spector
2.) Handwound mech is fine. Ability to hack seconds is desirable. Power reserve
feature would be great.
Power reserve will probably be out of reach for an affordable watch.
That is too bad.
Post by Mark South
Post by Walter Spector
5.) As an alternative I'd *really* like a reasonable alarm feature. New Memovoxs
and Crickets are way to expensive. The need for an alarm is something which
forces me to use quartz watches much of the time.
"An alarm feature, combined with power reserve meter, means that one has
complete assurance that the appointment will not be missed."
Where's that quote from?
I made it up. Been wanting a mechanical watch w/alarm for a long time.
An alarm, combined with power reserve indicator (to make sure it is wound
past the point where the alarm is supposed to go off) would make an
awesome and unique combination.
Post by Mark South
Post by Walter Spector
6.) Since the internet is a 24 hour activity, consider a GMT hand.
Does that help?
Again, it would add to the uniqueness of the watch. Also add to the
'internet' theme.
Post by Mark South
Post by Walter Spector
9.) Leather band is fine. I generally don't like bracelets.
Am I right in assuming that we should aim to spend the money on the watch,
and leave the group members to change the strap/bracelet to whatever they
prefer?
I'll leave it to others to opine. I'd gladly give up a bracelet to get an
extra complication.

BTW, if offered with a leather strap, it should be possible to order a
spare strap or two. One for wearing, the other(s) for posterity.

Walt
-...-
Walt Spector
(w6ws at earthlink dot net)
Jack Denver
2005-02-04 21:34:32 UTC
Permalink
There's a lot of tensions here ...on the one hand there's the tension
between features and cost. There's also the tension between a reasonable
common denominator and coming up with a watch that is so bland that you
might as well go and buy a Tissot or some other readily available watch. In
any kind of "Swiss" mechanical watch, features such as power reserve and
alarm are usually gonna cost you bigtime. OTOH, there are inexpensive
movements around (Poljot, Orient) that have some of these features but none
that I can think of that have all. I suppose there's no reason why a Poljot
movement couldn't be used - after all they're good enough for Franck Muller.
:-) and our alt.h watch doesn't have to be labeled "Swiss Made" even if it
is put together there. I'd prefer something that is a little bit out of the
ordinary today - say a NOS handwind (caches of these turn up periodically,
enough for a limited production run. Little Swiss elves seem to love to hide
things in vaults - gold, jewelry, watch movements, etc.). ETA2824 watches
are a dime a dozen. You want something that has a little bit of novelty
value but not something that is so weird looking that you wouldn't be
willing to wear it to the office.


The idea of ALT.HOROLOGY in place of the numbers is clever I though. It
reminds me of the very collectible "Eaton's 1/4 Century" Rolex Prince
watches (given to employees of that Canadian department store as rewards for
25 years of service):

http://www.yorktime.com/search?cid=6:sku=158


As you can see, from a distance the watch looks very "passable" as a
pleasant dress watch, very clean lines, nothing remarkable about its
styling. Only when you get very close do you realize that this is no
ordinary watch but a very special piece that is not for everyone. You could
do worse than to do a "homage" of this watch in stainless. You don't have to
feel like you are stealing, because Rolex doesn't sell anything remotely
like this any more nor will they ever sell a watch again that doesn't have
ROLEX in huge letters on the dial. In accordance with modern taste, I'd do
it up a bit bigger, since 33mm looks small nowadays. I'd say 36mm but some
would even say 38. Anything bigger would look clownish IMHO, but then what
do I know when people walk around nowadays with watches as big as potatoes.

I must say that I am attracted to watches with ultra-clean styling such as
this one. For some reason, these seemed to reach their height in the '50s -
the pre-war rectangular watches were out of style, the wild excesses of the
'60s and '70s were not yet conceived. To me these are the archetypical
watches, maybe because my father wore watches like this when I was a child.
Post by Walter Spector
Post by Mark South
...
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
(delurking)
1.) Styling-wise, something like an Omega DeVille. E.g., dressy enough to wear
to the office, but not 'flashy'. (NO DIVERS BEZELS.)
2.) Handwound mech is fine. Ability to hack seconds is desirable. Power reserve
feature would be great.
3.) Date not essential. Especially if hand-wound.
4.) Forget a chrono. They are a dime a dozen, and I rarely use the chrono features.
5.) As an alternative I'd *really* like a reasonable alarm feature. New Memovoxs
and Crickets are way to expensive. The need for an alarm is something which
forces me to use quartz watches much of the time.
"An alarm feature, combined with power reserve meter, means that one has
complete assurance that the appointment will not be missed."
6.) Since the internet is a 24 hour activity, consider a GMT hand.
7.) It must be easy to read in all lighting situations. To support this, there
should be obvious contrast between the hands and face. The hands should also
be luminous. (The Swiss Army Officers watch is a nice example of this.)
8.) Saphire glass would be nice. Display back not a huge requirement.
9.) Leather band is fine. I generally don't like bracelets.
10.) Don't waste a lot of budget on fancy boxes.
(back to lurk mode)
Walt Spector
(w6ws at earthlink dot net)
Roger A. Cope
2005-02-04 23:05:02 UTC
Permalink
"Jack Denver" <***@netscape.net> wrote in message news:yaGdnbDSYb76d57fRVn-***@comcast.com...

Good points, all. Especially regarding 50s styling.

re "NOS handwind (caches of these turn up periodically, enough for a limited
production run."

Where? How do you find such a cache?

rac
Post by Jack Denver
There's a lot of tensions here ...on the one hand there's the tension
between features and cost. There's also the tension between a reasonable
common denominator and coming up with a watch that is so bland that you
might as well go and buy a Tissot or some other readily available watch. In
any kind of "Swiss" mechanical watch, features such as power reserve and
alarm are usually gonna cost you bigtime. OTOH, there are inexpensive
movements around (Poljot, Orient) that have some of these features but none
that I can think of that have all. I suppose there's no reason why a Poljot
movement couldn't be used - after all they're good enough for Franck Muller.
:-) and our alt.h watch doesn't have to be labeled "Swiss Made" even if it
is put together there. I'd prefer something that is a little bit out of the
ordinary today - say a NOS handwind (caches of these turn up periodically,
enough for a limited production run. Little Swiss elves seem to love to hide
things in vaults - gold, jewelry, watch movements, etc.). ETA2824 watches
are a dime a dozen. You want something that has a little bit of novelty
value but not something that is so weird looking that you wouldn't be
willing to wear it to the office.
The idea of ALT.HOROLOGY in place of the numbers is clever I though. It
reminds me of the very collectible "Eaton's 1/4 Century" Rolex Prince
watches (given to employees of that Canadian department store as rewards for
http://www.yorktime.com/search?cid=6:sku=158
As you can see, from a distance the watch looks very "passable" as a
pleasant dress watch, very clean lines, nothing remarkable about its
styling. Only when you get very close do you realize that this is no
ordinary watch but a very special piece that is not for everyone. You could
do worse than to do a "homage" of this watch in stainless. You don't have to
feel like you are stealing, because Rolex doesn't sell anything remotely
like this any more nor will they ever sell a watch again that doesn't have
ROLEX in huge letters on the dial. In accordance with modern taste, I'd do
it up a bit bigger, since 33mm looks small nowadays. I'd say 36mm but some
would even say 38. Anything bigger would look clownish IMHO, but then what
do I know when people walk around nowadays with watches as big as potatoes.
I must say that I am attracted to watches with ultra-clean styling such as
this one. For some reason, these seemed to reach their height in the '50s -
the pre-war rectangular watches were out of style, the wild excesses of the
'60s and '70s were not yet conceived. To me these are the archetypical
watches, maybe because my father wore watches like this when I was a child.
Post by Walter Spector
Post by Mark South
...
What about making up an official alt.horology watch? We could have a
design competition and vote to choose the winner. (It could even be an
annual event.) The discussion to choose a design would at least be
interesting, and the watches would have some interest as curiosities.
(delurking)
1.) Styling-wise, something like an Omega DeVille. E.g., dressy enough
to
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Walter Spector
wear
to the office, but not 'flashy'. (NO DIVERS BEZELS.)
2.) Handwound mech is fine. Ability to hack seconds is desirable.
Power
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Walter Spector
reserve
feature would be great.
3.) Date not essential. Especially if hand-wound.
4.) Forget a chrono. They are a dime a dozen, and I rarely use the
chrono
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Walter Spector
features.
5.) As an alternative I'd *really* like a reasonable alarm feature. New Memovoxs
and Crickets are way to expensive. The need for an alarm is
something
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Walter Spector
which
forces me to use quartz watches much of the time.
"An alarm feature, combined with power reserve meter, means that one has
complete assurance that the appointment will not be missed."
6.) Since the internet is a 24 hour activity, consider a GMT hand.
7.) It must be easy to read in all lighting situations. To support
this,
Post by Jack Denver
Post by Walter Spector
there
should be obvious contrast between the hands and face. The hands should also
be luminous. (The Swiss Army Officers watch is a nice example of this.)
8.) Saphire glass would be nice. Display back not a huge requirement.
9.) Leather band is fine. I generally don't like bracelets.
10.) Don't waste a lot of budget on fancy boxes.
(back to lurk mode)
Walt Spector
(w6ws at earthlink dot net)
Jim Bianchi
2005-02-04 23:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Good points, all. Especially regarding 50s styling. re "NOS handwind
(caches of these turn up periodically, enough for a limited production
run."
Where?
In Czekoslovakia, mostly.
How do you find such a cache?
Look in hobo camps. (Haven't you heard of 'cacheing a bum Czeck?')
--
***@sonic.net

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary, and those who don't."
Squirrel
2005-02-05 01:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Denver
There's a lot of tensions here ...on the one hand there's the tension
between features and cost. There's also the tension between a
reasonable
Post by Jack Denver
common denominator and coming up with a watch that is so bland that you
might as well go and buy a Tissot or some other readily available watch. In
any kind of "Swiss" mechanical watch, features such as power reserve and
alarm are usually gonna cost you bigtime. OTOH, there are inexpensive
movements around (Poljot, Orient) that have some of these features but none
that I can think of that have all. I suppose there's no reason why a Poljot
movement couldn't be used - after all they're good enough for Franck Muller.
:-) and our alt.h watch doesn't have to be labeled "Swiss Made" even if it
is put together there. I'd prefer something that is a little bit out of the
ordinary today - say a NOS handwind (caches of these turn up
periodically,
Post by Jack Denver
enough for a limited production run. Little Swiss elves seem to love to hide
things in vaults - gold, jewelry, watch movements, etc.). ETA2824 watches
are a dime a dozen. You want something that has a little bit of novelty
value but not something that is so weird looking that you wouldn't be
willing to wear it to the office.
What it all really comes down to is the business Mark chooses to do the
watches. I assume they'll have a set choice of case styles (probably
set up for the eta 2824 or 2836) and may be limited to dial choice,
etc. Nothing can be decided until Mark finishes his research and a
company is chosen.
Post by Jack Denver
I must say that I am attracted to watches with ultra-clean styling such as
this one. For some reason, these seemed to reach their height in the '50s -
the pre-war rectangular watches were out of style, the wild excesses of the
'60s and '70s were not yet conceived. To me these are the
archetypical
Post by Jack Denver
watches, maybe because my father wore watches like this when I was a child.
This is exactly what I've been thinking. I would love a stepped case
with sculpted lugs, and applied arabics (or a combination with markers)
over a domed dial. I've noticed quite a few people remark in the last
few years that they love the 50's style, but wish it were available in
a modern-sized watch. If the business Mark chooses offers such a
beast, that gets my vote.

BTW, I noted in an earlier post the suggestion for "A D H" to be on the
dial - that gets my vote too. Throw a "2005" in opposite the A D H and
leave the "alt.horology automatic trademarked sapphire waterproof 2005
limited edition only to those who ponied up the money" to be engraved
on the caseback.
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