Another fake Movado?

[Moka Java]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1

http://tinyurl.com/59tuy

In 15 years of collecting Movados I have never seen:

A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.

There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.

Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

[A Tramp]

Call me an old cynic, but could that be another Raketa?

I've just been truing to Email Rolex about a slightly different item, but
you can't do it as far as I can see.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3852&item=493716639
4&rd=1

What on earth can this be all about. It doesn't seem quite legal to me. I
reported it to EBay as best I could, but it doesn't seem to fit into one of
their automated categories.

Also dropped a line to the FHS

Stop looking for this stuff!. It could become an obsession. Talking of
which ... Back to the meths :>)

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&r
d=1

--

Post by Moka Java
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy
A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.
There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.
Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

[Mike Legue]

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=49376
06918&rd=1

I bought a "Rolex" from a selller in Germany that had similar features.
The shipping cost more than I paid for the watch, so it was not a great
loss. The movement was Eastern European. The pointer date was faked from a
standard date wheel movement.
After the hands fell off a second time, I decided get rid of the watch.
I put it in a large mechanics vice and turned it into a ultra-thin watch ;)

Best of luck to you.

Mike

[dAz]

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy
A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.
There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.
Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

its another Russki, a Raketa like the one with the exposed balance,

compare the pics
the fake from last week
Loading Image...
this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4937606918&indexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
this Raketa 2628 on Timezone
http://www.timezone.com/library/archives/archives631667750857017411
and this Raketa 2623
http://www.christophlorenz.de/watch/movements/raketa_2623_h.php?l=en

looks like the same watch movement to me, the shock spring on the
balance upper jewel, the layout of the plates, the ratchet click, the
look and finish.

[Jack Denver]

I'm guessing this is not a recently constructed fake but rather a 50 year
old fake - fake watches have been around almost as long as real watches.

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy
A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.
There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.
Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

[Moka Java]

The base movement might be 50 years old, the case and the dial are a
newer fabrication. Since collectible Leicas have tanked the industrious
Russians are flailing for whatever they can get.

Richard "an Eastern European mutt" F

Post by Jack Denver
I'm guessing this is not a recently constructed fake but rather a 50 year
old fake - fake watches have been around almost as long as real watches.

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy
A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.
There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.
Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

[Jack Denver]

I don't think they are industrious enough to fake a broken second hand,
etc. - note that the watch, so far at least, is going for very little.

I've heard that one of the ways to spot an art fake is that faker will put
the "wear" or "damage" in an unimportant part of the piece - off in the
corner but not over the subject's face, whereas real wear occurs randomly
and is just as likely (according to Murphy's Law, more likely) to affect
something that significantly affects value.

The base movement might be 50 years old, the case and the dial are a newer
fabrication. Since collectible Leicas have tanked the industrious
Russians are flailing for whatever they can get.
Richard "an Eastern European mutt" F

Post by Jack Denver
I'm guessing this is not a recently constructed fake but rather a 50
year old fake - fake watches have been around almost as long as real
watches.

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy
A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.
There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.
Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

[Moka Java]

Jack Denver wrote:

I used to collect cameras. The Russians made copies of the Leica II,
some were branded Zorki, others, "Leica". After the fall of the Soviet
Empire all manner of "rare" Russian photo equipment was finding it's way
here. When they ran out of that crap they started refinishing their
Russian "Leicas". First they started making gold plated, lizard covered
"Luxus" models but enough people realized that the Luxus was a Leica A
so they started refinishing them as Luftwaffe and various other German
military versions. All very obvious junk because the Russian "Leicas"
never had the fit, finish or feel of the real thing. The shutter and
wind mechanisms are a dead giveaway. The Russian optics are quite good.

Back to watches. If these fake Movados are using old movements then
they are being recased and redialed as rare collectibles. The cases and
dials may well be coming from China. (I had a couple of interesting
emails with Paul Pratt about his watch collection and new "Omega" cases
from China, but that's another story.) This particular fake Movado is a
recently fabricated piece of crap and the second hand fell off. The
seller is selling it as-is. I don't know if he realizes it's a fake, he
hasn't responded to my emails.

Richard "urging everyone to email the seller and ask if he knows his
watch is a fake" F

Post by Jack Denver
I don't think they are industrious enough to fake a broken second hand,
etc. - note that the watch, so far at least, is going for very little.
I've heard that one of the ways to spot an art fake is that faker will put
the "wear" or "damage" in an unimportant part of the piece - off in the
corner but not over the subject's face, whereas real wear occurs randomly
and is just as likely (according to Murphy's Law, more likely) to affect
something that significantly affects value.

The base movement might be 50 years old, the case and the dial are a newer
fabrication. Since collectible Leicas have tanked the industrious
Russians are flailing for whatever they can get.
Richard "an Eastern European mutt" F

Post by Jack Denver
I'm guessing this is not a recently constructed fake but rather a 50
year old fake - fake watches have been around almost as long as real
watches.

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy
A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.
There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.
Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

[A Tramp]

Who put two bids on this? Just curious.

[Jack Denver]

What makes you say this is a recent fabrication? To me this looks like old
crap, not new crap, not that there's much difference.

I used to collect cameras. The Russians made copies of the Leica II, some
were branded Zorki, others, "Leica". After the fall of the Soviet Empire
all manner of "rare" Russian photo equipment was finding it's way here.
When they ran out of that crap they started refinishing their Russian
"Leicas". First they started making gold plated, lizard covered "Luxus"
models but enough people realized that the Luxus was a Leica A so they
started refinishing them as Luftwaffe and various other German military
versions. All very obvious junk because the Russian "Leicas" never had
the fit, finish or feel of the real thing. The shutter and wind
mechanisms are a dead giveaway. The Russian optics are quite good.
Back to watches. If these fake Movados are using old movements then they
are being recased and redialed as rare collectibles. The cases and dials
may well be coming from China. (I had a couple of interesting emails with
Paul Pratt about his watch collection and new "Omega" cases from China,
but that's another story.) This particular fake Movado is a recently
fabricated piece of crap and the second hand fell off. The seller is
selling it as-is. I don't know if he realizes it's a fake, he hasn't
responded to my emails.
Richard "urging everyone to email the seller and ask if he knows his watch
is a fake" F

Post by Jack Denver
I don't think they are industrious enough to fake a broken second hand,
etc. - note that the watch, so far at least, is going for very little.
I've heard that one of the ways to spot an art fake is that faker will
put the "wear" or "damage" in an unimportant part of the piece - off in
the corner but not over the subject's face, whereas real wear occurs
randomly and is just as likely (according to Murphy's Law, more likely)
to affect something that significantly affects value.

Post by Moka Java
The base movement might be 50 years old, the case and the dial are a
newer fabrication. Since collectible Leicas have tanked the industrious
Russians are flailing for whatever they can get.
Richard "an Eastern European mutt" F

Post by Jack Denver
I'm guessing this is not a recently constructed fake but rather a 50
year old fake - fake watches have been around almost as long as real
watches.

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy
A case like this;
A Movado movement marked Geneva;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a dial;
The hand holding a pocket watch symbol on a crown.
There are other problems like no case reference number and a movement
strangely similar to the other real fake Movado I posted about.
Richard "I must be the one with a problem" F

[Moka Java]

Post by Jack Denver
What makes you say this is a recent fabrication? To me this looks like old
crap, not new crap, not that there's much difference.

Case looks sharp with original polish, no watchmakers marks in the case,
gold markers on the dial are not tarnished, and the gold paint on dial
looks fresh. The flaws on the dial are from the second hand failing,
not age. I could be wrong, it could be a NOS fake, but I don't think
so. The Russians weren't making stuff like this 50 years ago, and I
don't think they were exporting many watch movements. The Russians were
happy to make watches that worked and decorated them with bright colors
and bas relief images. This looks to be a Russian movement gussied up
by the Chinese who are making all the exposed balance and fancy date
watches you see on Ebay.

Richard "no argument that crap is crap!" F

Post by Jack Denver

Post by Moka Java
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=4937606918&rd=1
http://tinyurl.com/59tuy