Seiko 5 rotor action

[Beau G.]

Hi all,
I was just wondering as the new first time owner of my very first Seiko
5 if maybe I got a little bit of a screwy watch.
I have it for a week now and it's running OK. From what I've read in
some of the posts they tend to run a little fast right out of the box
and mine is running true to form. Apparently the "break-in period" is
somewhat of a factor as regards gaining/losing time. Right now it's
gaining about 10-15 sec a day vs. my Atomic Solar G-Shock.
Anyhoo, heres the question --- the rotor doesn't appear to be a very
free spinning type of rotor as compared to my Speedmaster or Amphibian.
In those watches when I shake them I can feel and hear the rotors going
around. Not so with the Seiko 5. Also the Seiko has a display back and
I do observe the rotor to be almost "hanging up" sometimes in its
orbit. It is definitely not smooth and free wheeling as compared to the
other two.
Is this normal for these 7S26(A) movements?
Or did I get a bum watch?

thanks everyone,

~G

[dAz]

Post by Beau G.
around. Not so with the Seiko 5. Also the Seiko has a display back and
I do observe the rotor to be almost "hanging up" sometimes in its
orbit. It is definitely not smooth and free wheeling as compared to the
other two.
Is this normal for these 7S26(A) movements?
Or did I get a bum watch?

if this is happening after you have worn the watch for a few hours, then
its quite normal, when the mainspring is close to fully wound there is
more resistance in the autowind system so the rotor appears to go more
vertical in action.

in fact all autos do this when the mainspring is fully wound or close to.

if the auto system was not working properly you would notice it in how
much reserve power is left when the watch is taken off at the end of the
day, normally the 7S26 movement will run for 48hours when its fully
wound, if the watch stops overnight then either you are not wearing it
long enough, not active enough, autowind is not working properly or the
watch needs a service (unlikely since its a new watch)

[Tony Stanford]

Post by dAz

Post by Beau G.
around. Not so with the Seiko 5. Also the Seiko has a display back and
I do observe the rotor to be almost "hanging up" sometimes in its
orbit. It is definitely not smooth and free wheeling as compared to the
other two.
Is this normal for these 7S26(A) movements?
Or did I get a bum watch?

if this is happening after you have worn the watch for a few hours,
then its quite normal, when the mainspring is close to fully wound
there is more resistance in the autowind system so the rotor appears to
go more vertical in action.
in fact all autos do this when the mainspring is fully wound or close to.
if the auto system was not working properly you would notice it in how
much reserve power is left when the watch is taken off at the end of
the day, normally the 7S26 movement will run for 48hours when its fully
wound, if the watch stops overnight then either you are not wearing it
long enough, not active enough, autowind is not working properly or the
watch needs a service (unlikely since its a new watch)

I hate to disagree with an expert like daz, but my 3-month-old 7S26 runs
for precisely 44hours after being left off. I've tried this again and
again, and always get the same result. This is after it has been worn
for days, including long walks, etc.

As for the rotor not being free spinning, my 7S26 doesn't have a display
back, so I can't tell. But I was surprised that my recently purchased
2836 auto, which does have a transparent back, has not got a
particularly free-spinning rotor, wound or unwound. If I give it a
flick, the rotor will go through 180 degrees, then flop back, do a few
tiny swings to and fro, then settle. I have never got the rotor to do a
360 degree spin, however I flick it. It only does 360 if I turn the
watch through 360, but then of course the rotor stays put relative to
the earth.

It doesn't seem to affect anything. It winds up in a day, and I get the
normal reserve for a 2836, which is 41 hours (I think).

[Mooron]

Tony Stanford wrote:

<snip>

Post by Tony Stanford
I hate to disagree with an expert like daz, but my 3-month-old 7S26 runs
for precisely 44hours after being left off. I've tried this again and
again, and always get the same result. This is after it has been worn
for days, including long walks, etc.
As for the rotor not being free spinning, my 7S26 doesn't have a display
back, so I can't tell.

I have several Seiko 5's with display backs. They behave as dAz
describes. The rotor clearly resists turning when it gets wound up.

- Mooron

[Tony Stanford]

Post by Mooron
I have several Seiko 5's with display backs. They behave as dAz
describes. The rotor clearly resists turning when it gets wound up.

Yes, I'm sure. I wasn't querying dAz's expertise, just noting that I get
only 44 hours' reserve out of my 7S26, not 48.

I would also be interested to know if the rotor on my 2836 ought to make
a 360 when flicked, or whether a stiffer 180 is the norm, as with the
OP's 7S26. As I say, I can't tell because I don't have a display back on
the 7S26, only on the 2836

[Angelino2]

Hey Tony:

Thanks for your post. Well, other than opening the watch and observing
for yourself, you may try to use your other senses to get a approximate
sense of stiffness of the rotor--and 360 spins...

You may want to try this:

Take your watch off, close the clasp, keep the case of the watch dead
center in the palm of your hands--with the band around your fingers (on
the outside), not under the case rsting against your palm, swing the watch
from left-to-right---what do you feel? You will be able to feel/hear the
rotor make a complete swing, partial swing,or just move sluggishly.

You mentioned an ETA 2836--you'll hardly ever get a 360, except when it
has been fully wound down and exhausted. Once it has reached the point of
where it needs to be to maintain that 36-40-hour reserve, you will see/feel
it move in steps---keeping in mind that all ETAs wind
unidirectionally--like the 7S26, and unlike the Miyota.

Regards,
Angelis

[Jack Denver]

No, that's wrong.

ETA 28 series - bidirectional
7S26 - bidirectional
Miyota - unidirectional

Not that it makes much difference as a practical matter - both systems work.



"Angelino2" <me2006-***@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@localhost.talkaboutprofessions.com...

snip
keeping in mind that all ETAs wind

Post by Angelino2
unidirectionally--like the 7S26, and unlike the Miyota.
Regards,
Angelis

[Angelino2]

My apologies for inverting the details of the movements:

Yes,

ETAs--bidirectionally
Same as 7S26
Miyota--unidirectionally

Regards,

Angelis

PS: Thanks John--you're the best!

[y_p_w]

Post by Mooron
<snip>

Post by Tony Stanford
I hate to disagree with an expert like daz, but my 3-month-old 7S26 runs
for precisely 44hours after being left off. I've tried this again and
again, and always get the same result. This is after it has been worn
for days, including long walks, etc.
As for the rotor not being free spinning, my 7S26 doesn't have a display
back, so I can't tell.

I have several Seiko 5's with display backs. They behave as dAz
describes. The rotor clearly resists turning when it gets wound up.

You should see an ETA AutoQuartz movement. I've got a Tissot
Powermatic with a display back. The rotor absolutely spins freely.
Makes a lot of noise too. I understand the charging electronics
includes an overcharge protection circuit although I'm not sure
exactly where the excess energy goes.

[Beau G.]

Hey Jack,
you mentioned a tap on the regulator to slow down the 7S26.
Are we talking a millimeter or maybe fractions thereof?
a smathering of a gnats pube hair perhaps?
I'd feel more comfortable hearing it from a pro before I go in there
and BURY IT ALL THE WAY like the hamfisted rockhead I can sometimes be.

thank you sir

~G

[dAz]

Post by Beau G.
Hey Jack,
you mentioned a tap on the regulator to slow down the 7S26.
Are we talking a millimeter or maybe fractions thereof?
a smathering of a gnats pube hair perhaps?

yes they are touchy, its like you think you moved it but you can't tell
becuase you didn't see it move, thats usually enough to affect the rate :)

just be sure to move the right one, not the hairspring stud, its the one
with the 2 small dots not the one with the larger single dot, ok.

Post by Beau G.
I'd feel more comfortable hearing it from a pro before I go in there
and BURY IT ALL THE WAY like the hamfisted rockhead I can sometimes be.

well you can always buy another

[dAz]

Post by Tony Stanford
I hate to disagree with an expert like daz, but my 3-month-old 7S26 runs
for precisely 44hours after being left off. I've tried this again and
again, and always get the same result. This is after it has been worn
for days, including long walks, etc.

maybe you have a shorter mainspring in your watch ;)

you are probably right, manual wind watches generally run for 36 or so
hours, autos generally 48 hours or 2 days more or less.

I have taken my Seiko5 off at 6pm, missed a day, wear it again at 10am,
so that would be 40hours off the wrist, so I should still have 4 to
8hours reserve.

I have a spare Seiko5 sitting here, I will handwind it and set it on 12
noon and see how long it will run for.

ps; I handwind a 7S26 by taking the back off and using a screwdriver to
wind the spring, don't try this at home! :)

Post by Tony Stanford
As for the rotor not being free spinning, my 7S26 doesn't have a display
back, so I can't tell. But I was surprised that my recently purchased
2836 auto, which does have a transparent back, has not got a
particularly free-spinning rotor, wound or unwound. If I give it a
flick, the rotor will go through 180 degrees, then flop back, do a few
tiny swings to and fro, then settle. I have never got the rotor to do a
360 degree spin, however I flick it. It only does 360 if I turn the
watch through 360, but then of course the rotor stays put relative to
the earth.
It doesn't seem to affect anything. It winds up in a day, and I get the
normal reserve for a 2836, which is 41 hours (I think).

yep, that is typical of the rotor action on ETAs, doesn't affect the
winding performance as you found.

according to the ETA tech doc on the 2836, the power reserve is 38hours,
other models listed do 42hours

go here
https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=3&tabid=28
select "Mecaline" in the product range and 2836-2 for caliber

2 pdfs will be listed, the first one is the parts and technical guide,
the second one goes into the differences in the 4 different grades the
2838-2 can be spec'd to, and gives the layouts of the dials, crowns ect,
interesting if you want to know what the differences are between the
base model and chronometers are.

these are decent pdfs too(big files), you can zoom right down on one
part to see exactly what it is.

dAz

[Tony Stanford]

Post by dAz
these are decent pdfs too(big files), you can zoom right down on one
part to see exactly what it is.
dAz

Thanks for the info. Very interesting.

[homepc]

Hi

I bought the following in January of this year:

Seiko Men's Automatic See Thru Steel Watch SNK391

My watch varies around 13 seconds fast per day. The rotor (looks like a
flywheel?) in the back window does seem to stick ever so slightly, but as I
tilt the case from side to side the rotor does move. I don't know if it's
my imagination or not, but the rotor seems spin a little more freely now
than when I first got the watch, but I can't say for sure. What I can
confirm is that this hasn't been an issue, and my watch works just fine.

I hate having to buy batteries for a wrist watch, especially those which I
use infrequently only for special occasions. I wouldn't hesitate to buy
another one. I have been on the lookout for a Seiko Superior model similar
to the one I have, but with a lumibrite face.

Post by Beau G.
Hi all,
I was just wondering as the new first time owner of my very first Seiko
5 if maybe I got a little bit of a screwy watch.
I have it for a week now and it's running OK. From what I've read in
some of the posts they tend to run a little fast right out of the box
and mine is running true to form. Apparently the "break-in period" is
somewhat of a factor as regards gaining/losing time. Right now it's
gaining about 10-15 sec a day vs. my Atomic Solar G-Shock.
Anyhoo, heres the question --- the rotor doesn't appear to be a very
free spinning type of rotor as compared to my Speedmaster or Amphibian.
In those watches when I shake them I can feel and hear the rotors going
around. Not so with the Seiko 5. Also the Seiko has a display back and
I do observe the rotor to be almost "hanging up" sometimes in its
orbit. It is definitely not smooth and free wheeling as compared to the
other two.
Is this normal for these 7S26(A) movements?
Or did I get a bum watch?
thanks everyone,
~G

[Beau G.]

Well that was great to hear. Thank you everyone. I think that my
timepiece is just fine after all. No worries.
I have to agree completely with homepc that when I pick up a watch that
I only wear several times a year and it is DEAD for want of a battery
that just kills me.
Well, that's not going to be a problem in the future.
I'm really thrilled with being able to own a cheap mechanical auto that
looks nice.

thanks again,

~G

[dAz]

Post by Beau G.
Well that was great to hear. Thank you everyone. I think that my
timepiece is just fine after all. No worries.
I have to agree completely with homepc that when I pick up a watch that
I only wear several times a year and it is DEAD for want of a battery
that just kills me.

plus the fact if the quartz watch did stop and because you don't wear
that much it might be a couple of months before you did notice it
stopped, in the mean time the battery may have started to leak, so
instead of a simple battery replacement you end up with a full service
or new movement costs as well, a lot of people own more than one watch
these days so the problem of battery leakage is more common than you
might think.

Post by Beau G.
Well, that's not going to be a problem in the future.
I'm really thrilled with being able to own a cheap mechanical auto that
looks nice.

good! :)

[Beau G.]

thanks for all the good info.

Angelis, I've only had this watch for a week and can't take it off yet.
I did take it off the other night to go to sleep but ususally I've been
wearing it 24X7 so it relly hasn't had a rest yet. soon...I'l let it
run down a little bit, but not yet.

dAz, that's some pretty technical stuff for a new guy lke my but it was
cool to look at. Incredible how much engineering goes into this little
thing on my wrist !

thanks

~G

[Angelino2]

Hey Beau G.:

That's not usual of this movement. Do you wear that watch
everyday---since it's one of your new ones? You may want to observe the
rotor after its resting period---you know, when the watch has had time off
the wrist. I can almost bet that you will see it move so freely---as what
it's been applauded for.

What's your usual watch on/off time? How many hours apart between wear
time/rest time?

I think that you may probably be wearing it too much. Give it a little
rest, or expand the differential between your on/off hours to free up the
mainspring a bit. Then look for any observable differences in rotor
swinging.

Keep us posted,

Angelis

[Mike]

Post by Beau G.
I was just wondering as the new first time owner of my very first Seiko
5 if maybe I got a little bit of a screwy watch.
I have it for a week now and it's running OK. From what I've read in
some of the posts they tend to run a little fast right out of the box
and mine is running true to form. Apparently the "break-in period" is
somewhat of a factor as regards gaining/losing time. Right now it's
gaining about 10-15 sec a day vs. my Atomic Solar G-Shock.

Consider yourself lucky. I have 4 Seikos with the 7S26 movement. Only one
runs in the 15 sec/day range. The others run in the 25-30 secs/day range.

Post by Beau G.
Anyhoo, heres the question --- the rotor doesn't appear to be a very
free spinning type of rotor as compared to my Speedmaster or Amphibian.

I observe the same in my Seikos. The ETA 2824 behaves much the same way.
There's nothing wrong with your watch, that's just how they are.

Post by Beau G.
In those watches when I shake them I can feel and hear the rotors going
around. Not so with the Seiko 5. Also the Seiko has a display back and
I do observe the rotor to be almost "hanging up" sometimes in its
orbit. It is definitely not smooth and free wheeling as compared to the
other two.
Is this normal for these 7S26(A) movements?

In my experience, yes. It doesn't spin freely like a Miyota or a Valjoux
7750.

[Jack Denver]

Consider regulating the Seikos that are 30 secs fast - all they need is a
little tap on the regulator.

The Miyota and 7750 appear to swing freely because they are both
unidirectional - in one direction the rotor is free wheeling against no
resistance. When the watch is close to fully wound there is much more
resistance in the other (winding) direction .

Post by Mike

Post by Beau G.
I was just wondering as the new first time owner of my very first Seiko
5 if maybe I got a little bit of a screwy watch.
I have it for a week now and it's running OK. From what I've read in
some of the posts they tend to run a little fast right out of the box
and mine is running true to form. Apparently the "break-in period" is
somewhat of a factor as regards gaining/losing time. Right now it's
gaining about 10-15 sec a day vs. my Atomic Solar G-Shock.

Consider yourself lucky. I have 4 Seikos with the 7S26 movement. Only one
runs in the 15 sec/day range. The others run in the 25-30 secs/day range.

Post by Beau G.
Anyhoo, heres the question --- the rotor doesn't appear to be a very
free spinning type of rotor as compared to my Speedmaster or Amphibian.

I observe the same in my Seikos. The ETA 2824 behaves much the same way.
There's nothing wrong with your watch, that's just how they are.

Post by Beau G.
In those watches when I shake them I can feel and hear the rotors going
around. Not so with the Seiko 5. Also the Seiko has a display back and
I do observe the rotor to be almost "hanging up" sometimes in its
orbit. It is definitely not smooth and free wheeling as compared to the
other two.
Is this normal for these 7S26(A) movements?

In my experience, yes. It doesn't spin freely like a Miyota or a Valjoux
7750.